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11223 Views 23 Replies Latest reply: Jan 30, 2012 11:07 AM by maccabi RSS
esmorgue Master
esmorgue
6,606 posts since
Jul 9, 2011
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Jan 30, 2012 8:13 AM

Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond. Bandwith usage, caps?

So as it has been stated by some that have better knowledge than I about the subject. BigB, Foxhound,Maccabi, dedicatedserversplease, also others. I would like all of your knowledge put into this thread. So there has been this discussion about that the Multiplayer that we are involved in is ran by listen servers. Also, there has been the debate over whether we should use dedicated server or not.

 

So what I was thinking while I was at work was that since alot of you have said that listen servers are the best option for the mass amounts of people online, not necessarily dedicated servers. We have been told that the new features from Black Ops, Theater Mode, Stat Tracking, Elite were/are causing some of the problems with bandwith and connections to a certain extent. What if they used the dedicated servers for just those new additions? Would that be optional, and a good way to keep some strain off the servers we play on?

 

Thank You Soldiers

 

Morgue

 

Message was edited by: esmorgue

 

Message was edited by: esmorgue

Tags: of, multiplayer, to, servers, types, improve
  • thebigb59 Master
    thebigb59
    8,237 posts since
    May 24, 2011
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    Oct 6, 2011 4:52 AM (in response to esmorgue)
    Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

    COD doesn't really use Listen Servers, is more of a Client/Server system in which the person acts as the host.

     

    Dedicated servers would improve the connection, as shown with Battlelog which uses the same server as Battlefield 3.

     

    The problem is cost, while Elite will most defientely need Dedicated servers, to provide that and one for Consoles would be expensive.

    • esmorgue Master
      esmorgue
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      Oct 6, 2011 4:59 AM (in response to thebigb59)
      Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

      Thats why I was wondering if they could use Dedi's for Elite. I'm not savvy in this area, so I was thinking that the Dedi's being used for Elite would save some of the strain on the servers they use for Consoles. Maybe causing less lag, connection drops.

    • maccabi Master
      maccabi
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      Oct 6, 2011 5:17 AM (in response to thebigb59)
      Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

      thebigb59 wrote:

       

      COD doesn't really use Listen Servers, is more of a Client/Server system in which the person acts as the host.

       

      Dedicated servers would improve the connection, as shown with Battlelog which uses the same server as Battlefield 3.

       

      The problem is cost, while Elite will most defientely need Dedicated servers, to provide that and one for Consoles would be expensive.

       

      Here we go again seriously you're still sticking with that after being shown how wrong you were before #facepalm, maybe you should just concentrate on doing what you good at ie trying to get the highest post count, and leave the proper stuff to people who know what they are talking about.

       

      @esmorgue.

      Cod uses LISTEN SERVERS. disregard bigb he's (still) completely wrong. thank you for not opening up the entire dedi vrs listen server debate and actually asking a pretty good question.

      So basically the only thing on your list that actually effected gameplay (blops) was theatre. It could/can add additional strain to a hosts processing power and /or bandwidth - this is why it turns off collecting info during a game a sort of in built safety valve and why you see numerous whines on the blops forums about theatre not recording entire matches especially on ground war where there is expotentially more game traffic flowing.

       

      Things like stat tracking dont really effect game play, at the end of a match the host uploads to the elite/game dev servers so this in itself isnt an issue. Elite is already on a dedicated server system,same as all the stats ect for blackops already say on their own dedicated server.

       

      The problem is the way theatre has been designed by allowing the host to collect the infomation is great as it allows you to then watch from any players point of view. Obviously the downsides to this are as already discussed. The other way is how halo does it where the client collects theatre data but that limits you to possible playback view points.

       

      It will be interesting to see what Iw/sh have come up with if the stealthclowns claim of lowered bandwidth /processing on their theatre is going to be like. Personaly I think its just another stealthclownism that wont hold much water when put into practice. Unless they opt for some mashed together client side system that when sent to elite and iws servers gets mashed together into something resembling what we have with blops ie multi view multi player viewpoints.

      • esmorgue Master
        esmorgue
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        Oct 6, 2011 5:53 AM (in response to maccabi)
        Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

        So lets say this was a possibilty. If they put the Theater mode on Dedis, would that be a plus or no? I can do without it. I would like to see a option to turn it on and off. I think that would be a plus. I rarely watch them. I did in the beginning but that was when it recorded whole GW games. Thats all I really play.

      • fallenshadow000 Apprentice
        fallenshadow000
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        Jan 30, 2012 9:02 AM (in response to maccabi)
        Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

        maccabi wrote:

        It will be interesting to see what Iw/sh have come up with if the stealthclowns claim of lowered bandwidth /processing on their theatre is going to be like. Personaly I think its just another stealthclownism that wont hold much water when put into practice. Unless they opt for some mashed together client side system that when sent to elite and iws servers gets mashed together into something resembling what we have with blops ie multi view multi player viewpoints.

        Is this why MW3's Theater is done so half-assed as opposed to Black Ops' theater (no switching to 1st person on enemy players, no seeing scoreboard, etc)?

        • maccabi Master
          maccabi
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          Jan 30, 2012 11:07 AM (in response to fallenshadow000)
          Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

          fallenshadow000 wrote:

           

          maccabi wrote:

          It will be interesting to see what Iw/sh have come up with if the stealthclowns claim of lowered bandwidth /processing on their theatre is going to be like. Personaly I think its just another stealthclownism that wont hold much water when put into practice. Unless they opt for some mashed together client side system that when sent to elite and iws servers gets mashed together into something resembling what we have with blops ie multi view multi player viewpoints.

          Is this why MW3's Theater is done so half-assed as opposed to Black Ops' theater (no switching to 1st person on enemy players, no seeing scoreboard, etc)?

          nutshell yes,

          both systems have pros and cons.. blops had one major con it affected the hosts bandwidth and processing cabalities hence it turned off especially in groundwar, mw3 system is better but the downside/play off is then we cant have 1st person on other players.

  • iif0xh0undii GlobalModerator
    iif0xh0undii
    10,709 posts since
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    Oct 6, 2011 5:46 AM (in response to esmorgue)
    Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

    Maccabi has addressed this very well. I too am eager to see how things turn out and am hoping that a lot of the backend will be discussed privately or on a public scale.

    • esmorgue Master
      esmorgue
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      Oct 6, 2011 5:57 AM (in response to iif0xh0undii)
      Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

      I also would like more info on this. I read Vahns twitter yesterday that they would be turning off the servers for theater today. I wonder if they will keep them down for the duration until MW3 or not. I would like to know what can be done or not to better the experience for all of us, no matter what console, pc. Thats why I had this on my mind. To see if there is a better way to provide the theater for us.

      • iif0xh0undii GlobalModerator
        iif0xh0undii
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        Oct 6, 2011 6:21 AM (in response to esmorgue)
        Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

        Without inherent dedicated servers, the host or client will be responsible for uploading information. We can't move theater to dedicated servers in the way you're proposing. As stated by Mac, all of the gathered data exists on dedicated servers.

         

        The only way possible to increase our experience is to lower the consumption of bandwidth for such content. Unfortunately how and in what ways is entirely beyond me. I'll let the developers do what they can and hope the speeds/routing by ISPs increase and become more efficient.

         

        Edit: Let's also face the facts. We can't fight physics.

      • maccabi Master
        maccabi
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        Oct 6, 2011 6:19 AM (in response to esmorgue)
        Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

        esmorgue wrote:

         

        I also would like more info on this. I read Vahns twitter yesterday that they would be turning off the servers for theater today. I wonder if they will keep them down for the duration until MW3 or not. I would like to know what can be done or not to better the experience for all of us, no matter what console, pc. Thats why I had this on my mind. To see if there is a better way to provide the theater for us.

        Might be wrong from what i remember from on the treyarch FB page its just a case of routine maintance on pc and 360, and ps3 is having theatre turned off while they upgrade the storage capacity for theatre on ps3.  (saved theatre is just a text file not a video file).

         

        Part from that on your other point I guess we will have to wait and see as to how it all works in the real world, I doubt very much they will ever turn off theatre in public matches (we already had the ability to in private matches) as theatre is very much entwined into the whole Elite package. Given the complexties of theatre to start with and i am assuming its addition to blops was part 3arch part Act/elite i think overall it has been a great success and added an interesting dimension to the game that alot of people enjoy.

        It was billed as a beta in fairness and I can again only assume that due to the way it was intergrated into the game engine at the design stage in blops there wasnt much they could do to tweak it without a major recode. end of the day it did what it said on the tin, bar a few issues that again should be ironed out for mw3

  • Calculating status...
    Netherlans
    4 posts since
    Jan 6, 2012
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    Jan 22, 2012 9:03 AM (in response to esmorgue)
    Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

    IF I WANT TO UPLOAD A FILE IT WORKS I CLICK AT RENDER CLIP IT LOADS AND IT SAYS SUCCESFULLY UPLOADED SO OK....I GO TO COD ELITE I CHECK OUT MY THEATER....NO VIDEOS.....BUT I JUST UPLOADED...SOMEBODY HELP ME...(I HAVE TRIED A LOT OF TIMES)

  • Newbie
    Netherlans
    4 posts since
    Jan 6, 2012
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    Jan 22, 2012 9:05 AM (in response to esmorgue)
    Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

    I want do upload a file from theater to  cod theater its says its done...ok thats good. But if i go to Callofduty theater it says no videos i just made a clip 28 sec and i clickt render clip it loads and it says succesfully uploaded to theater.callofduty.com...so ok..but if i go to my theater at the website...it says no videos...somebody help me?

  • Newbie
    Netherlans
    4 posts since
    Jan 6, 2012
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    Jan 22, 2012 9:06 AM (in response to esmorgue)
    Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond.

    I want do upload a file from theater to  cod theater its says its done...ok thats good. But if i go to Callofduty theater it says no videos i just made a clip 28 sec and i clickt render clip it loads and it says succesfully uploaded to theater.callofduty.com...so ok..but if i go to my theater at the website...it says no videos...somebody help me?

  • esmorgue Master
    esmorgue
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    Jan 30, 2012 8:27 AM (in response to esmorgue)
    Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond. Bandwith usage, caps?

    Man this thread seem old....Anyway.

     

    I was thinking about this whole ordeal with the compensation system and the "high speed" vs. "pringles can speed" service issue.

     

    Now why I came to this is because I have never really gotten, read anywhere how much bandwith is actually used for CoD. Now that they have added all these new features such as multiple KS being in the air along with Support available at the same time. They, in my opinion should have to have "raised" the usage since at least CoD4/W@W requirements on to MW2, because of the vast amount of things added such as FMJ's MLCing, all the new KS etc. Now with MW3, you have at least 2 times if not more than MW2, things that can "suck" on bandwith! [IMO] Now, I have to mention and I always try to remember to, that I am ignorant to alot of the online, bandwith, latency, server, issues that come up. Though I have always been told to seek knowledge if you are going to be doing something.

     

    Sorry for that, but this is what I was wondering. If they increased or set a standard such as maybe...800-900kbps to give the best experience would that help? [Generic number] I mean in the sense of factoring that in with ping and all other factors for matchmaking.

    • maccabi Master
      maccabi
      11,975 posts since
      May 31, 2011
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      Jan 30, 2012 11:06 AM (in response to esmorgue)
      Re: Servers for Elite, Theater Mode and Stat Tracking. People with Knowledge please Respond. Bandwith usage, caps?

      esmorgue wrote:

       

      Man this thread seem old....Anyway.

       

      I was thinking about this whole ordeal with the compensation system and the "high speed" vs. "pringles can speed" service issue.

       

      Now why I came to this is because I have never really gotten, read anywhere how much bandwith is actually used for CoD. Now that they have added all these new features such as multiple KS being in the air along with Support available at the same time. They, in my opinion should have to have "raised" the usage since at least CoD4/W@W requirements on to MW2, because of the vast amount of things added such as FMJ's MLCing, all the new KS etc. Now with MW3, you have at least 2 times if not more than MW2, things that can "suck" on bandwith! [IMO] Now, I have to mention and I always try to remember to, that I am ignorant to alot of the online, bandwith, latency, server, issues that come up. Though I have always been told to seek knowledge if you are going to be doing something.

       

      Sorry for that, but this is what I was wondering. If they increased or set a standard such as maybe...800-900kbps to give the best experience would that help? [Generic number] I mean in the sense of factoring that in with ping and all other factors for matchmaking.

      bandwidth is not speed, there is no such thing as faster internet past comparing someone on cable to adsl. data still travels at the same speed all bandwidth allows is more data to travel at the same time. The only effect this has to gaming is upload speed if you are host as you need enough bandwidth to adequately send everyone in the lobby data at the same time,

      there is already a min upload needed to host thats why sometimes you find the mssage "no available hosts found".  Talking specifically about cod no one should suffer any adverse effects bandwidth wise in mw3 past the host (cites blops theatre system as an example),or alot of killstreaks ect as this adds to the traffic NOT the bandwidth per se.

       

      the game uses such a tiny amount of bandwidth compared players internet packages/ connections the point actually becomes totally moot if you arent host.

      the only things that will effect peoples connection is latency,the amount of updates you or the host sends (tickrates) and a clear steady flow of data being able to be transmitted (so streaming youtube videos is a no no)

       

      rough idea to host anywhere round and above 700kbps upload is fine ,

       

       

      what its worth remembering is although this games new the basics behind online fps gaming hasnt changed since the days of dail-up/isdn and people could quite happily play online cs or quake for example with isp packages alot lot smaller than we get nowadays.

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