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2634 Views     23 Replies
2634 Views 22 Replies Latest reply: Jan 25, 2013 6:38 AM by legguh RSS
sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
May 24, 2011

Host Disadvantage

Posted by sstang1 on Jan 24, 2013 4:26 AM

Host Disadvantage

 

I would say this is one of the biggest problems facing Call of Duty online MP.

 

In COD4 if you got host you were a GOD .... it was easy mode and you were able to murder people

 

In World at War - I didn't play it enough to notice how hosting was.

 

Modern Warfare 2 was the last Call of Duty where the host still had a tiny advantage - and I think this is the way the game NEEDS to be.  They should make the game so people WANT to get host - so you get less host rage quitting and so people won't gimp their connections by downloading every season of some TV show at the same time they are playing.  Doing these things all lead to a worse experience for everyone.

 

Black Ops introduced Theatre Mode and ever since people that are "in the know" - are fully aware being host puts you behind in the game.  Now I can't swear that theatre was totally to blame for this - but it seems like a huge coincedence that as soon as it was introduced - no one wants to be host anymore.

 

In every COD ever released - as soon as you entered the lobby you could hit "select" and the first person to get a four bar connection - you knew they were host - after all the talk of host disadvantage in Black Ops 1 - for MW3 they even went so far as to disguise who the host was - you could hit select as soon as you entered the lobby but everyones "bars" - went up at the same time - so you knew one of the people with four bars was host but not exactly which one. Sneaky.  Usually I could tell if I was host by the reduced frame rate and the gameplay not being as smooth - that being said I have to say that I think the host disadvantage was much less in MW3.  This possibly might have resulted from the fact I had the option to turn off theatre mode in MW3 - which I did before I ever played a single game.

 

What prompted this thread was the fact I was playing in the BO2 Domination Clan Challenge last night and started a game on Slums in which I couldn't kill anyone at point black range with an SMG - I don't usually rage quit but I was 0 - 7 and had clearly had the drop on most of the people that killed me - so I backed out of the game - and guess what ?? "Host Migration"

 

I was host and that was the reason I was doing so poorly.

 

This really needs to be addressed, as people are now taking measures to avoid getting host which just hurts the expereince for everyone.

 

Thoughts ?

2634 Views     
  • sXedge Novice 99 posts since
    Nov 19, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    sXedge     Jan 24, 2013 4:33 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I've heard that whoever hosts, records everyones game for theater mode, which might explain why you lose some recordings when host migration kicks in?

     

    I get host almost every game, sometimes its ok others its so so bad!

    • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
      May 24, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      sstang1     Jan 25, 2013 5:53 AM (in response to sXedge)

      Vahn has also said that if theatre is contributing to lag it will disable itself - so by saying that it confirms that it does have an effect.

  • kenjitill Novice 151 posts since
    Dec 28, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    kenjitill     Jan 24, 2013 4:34 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I don't have this problem, I'm in beast mode when i host and beast mode when i'm not. Every now and then we all have bad games. Maybe when you start off 0 and 7 your just having a bad game, or the team your playing might be good.

  • Raketti Apprentice 785 posts since
    Nov 26, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Raketti     Jan 24, 2013 4:46 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I agree with you that this should be addressed, but i do think you can host without being punished, but that requires decent matchmaking. i didn't feel any significant advantage or disadvantage while hosting prior to patch 1.03, but they had to mess it up and make the game lag. Now you get punished for getting host, and i lag nearly as bad without it too. I just used QoS to limit my upload to avoid host because i got tired of it, but it's the same as in BO and MW3, it made very little difference.

     

    Maybe in the next game they'll try to improve things, but mostlikely not. They will just re-use the same shitty netcode because the majority of their customers play casually and do not know any better, and defitenately do not know how an online FPS should perform if they are newer to CoD-series. As long as the game sells, they do not care.

    • sXedge Novice 99 posts since
      Nov 19, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      sXedge     Jan 24, 2013 4:48 AM (in response to Raketti)

      I've also limited my upload, but i still recieve the same ping, which host is chosen on as far as i'm aware?

      • Raketti Apprentice 785 posts since
        Nov 26, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Raketti     Jan 24, 2013 5:12 AM (in response to sXedge)

        I'm not entirely sure how the host selection works, but one part of it is testing upload bandwith. You don't need that much bandwith to play online, but some is required in hosting. If you set your upload low enough you won't get host, the limit is usually somewhere around 300kbps which will make you avoid host most times unless you are in a piss poor lobby. It's my experience, it naturally depends where you are located and with what kind of connections you are usually matched against, the limit for you to avoid host can be higher or lower.

         

        Limiting your bandwith does not affect your ping, this is something most people got wrong when they use QoS, they might have a better experiece simply because they avoid host due to the bandwith test. You see it quite often on the forum too, people complain about lag and state how much download/upload bandwith they have, when it's actually all about ping between the host and players, not about bandwith.

  • TwinSnakes89 Newbie 22 posts since
    Nov 14, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    TwinSnakes89     Jan 24, 2013 4:47 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I have the same issue. Within 5 Kills into a match I know if I am the host or not. So I quit and there it is: "Host Migration"

  • phxs72 Master 3,829 posts since
    Feb 29, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    phxs72     Jan 24, 2013 5:00 AM (in response to sstang1)

    Sometimes when I host I can't kill anything but more often than not when I host the game plays as well or better than when I'm not host.  When I'm in a match were I'm obviously behind and the host migrates I actually hope to draw host so that I at least have a shot at turning things around and so that I don't have to sit through the next two or three migrations from the folks that will quit as soon as they realize that they are hosting.  Of course if hosting is always a bad experience for you, then I can't blame you for backing out but fortunately for me it's only a problem on occasion.  Btw I have high speed cable internet but no fibre.  I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

  • Straightupkills Calculating status... 1 posts since
    Oct 17, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Straightupkills     Jan 24, 2013 5:14 AM (in response to sstang1)

    i have been hacked please help me apparently i have used everything a billion times

  • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
    May 24, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    sstang1     Jan 24, 2013 5:22 AM (in response to sstang1)

    The funny thing was that game I quit where I was 0-7 - when I went back into Domination it put me back into the same game - obviously I wasn't host a that point and I was able to go slightly positive in the same lobby against the same people.

     

    Also I see in this thread there are already stories of people changing their connections to avoid hosting - this is the problem that Activisions COD Dev's need to address.

  • crosby85 Novice 386 posts since
    Sep 22, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    crosby85     Jan 24, 2013 5:47 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I have posted about this in the past, tbh I post about most of the topics on here before others realise it is happening to them. I get host around 90% of any game I play. When doing so I can play HC games using the fal and not one shot records a hit despite shooting the guy multiple times!

     

    The reasons for this may be tied into the introduction of theartre however the main reason for the massive change from MW2 was the fact they changed the coding for the lag compensation. This was done because of all of the complainers that said the host had to much of an advantage. Back in the days when I played MW2 I did not have the quality internet I have not and would never be chosen as host. I never experianced a game that was effected too much by host advantage though.

     

    I did however decide to improve my internet to see if it would inturn improve my games as back then I would consider myself as an average player. Now however I would say I have improved a lot! yet despite this my K.D. has taken a significant hit (not saying K.D. is the be all and end all because its getting the W that really matters).

     

    I don't think that this would be an easy fix though as I believe the new way they have coded the lag comp is some how interwoven with other features that would need to be completely re-written to go back to the old lag comp settings. I prefered the days when the host had a slight advantage as now when I am host I stand no chance in the game unless the opposition are completely useless!!

    • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
      May 24, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      sstang1     Jan 24, 2013 6:21 AM (in response to crosby85)

      MW2 - was - is - and apparently will always be my favorite COD - it had a few OP things like the Noob Tubers with Danger Close and the MLC Knife Runners - they were annoying but didn't usually actually do well.

       

      But best of all it did things right in the Host - Connections - and Lag Compensation Dept.  Which is the most important part of an online FPS.

      • crosby85 Novice 386 posts since
        Sep 22, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        crosby85     Jan 24, 2013 6:31 AM (in response to sstang1)

        I totally agree with you, there may have been OP things like "one man army" but the game played as it should.

         

        Now however it has done a complete flip and (in my opinion) now the game is completely balanced, yet despite the massive improvement brought (again in my opinion) on by the inroduction of the pick 10 system with balancing the game we now can't play it as it should be played! I agree some people still believe that certain weapons are OP but that is because of the situation they are in, small maps = CQC which smg's excel in, however if you don't try using a AR the same way you will fin it is balanced.

         

        Back to the main topic though, the problem is the fact that a 3+ year old game still out performs a game that is 3 months old, This game could be the holy grail of the COD series with all the improvements but the fact that the game is unplayable due to lag, if this was fixed BLOPS 2 would be the best COD to have been produced.

  • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
    May 24, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    sstang1     Jan 24, 2013 6:46 AM (in response to sstang1)

    Another interesting note from last weekend - On Sunday I switched quickly during the Clan Ops from BO2 to MW3 and got a Moderate connection - normally I'd restart everything to get Open but I was only going to play a few games so I didn't bother - Well, with Moderate obviously I'd never be chosen as host and those few games of MW3 I played ran smooth as silk and I did really well.

     

    Might try this again this weekend and see if MW3 plays better for me on Moderate.

    • crosby85 Novice 386 posts since
      Sep 22, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      crosby85     Jan 24, 2013 6:56 AM (in response to sstang1)

      This has just cast my mind back to when I played BLOPS 1 I had a moderate NAT for that and very rarely suffered any lag or any other problems for that matter. Maybe the answer is a Moderate NAT?

      • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
        May 24, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        sstang1     Jan 24, 2013 7:15 AM (in response to crosby85)

        I do believe Moderate will keep you from ever getting host - but they say it will cause problems with matchmaking - we had a party on Black Ops 2 one night that had members with Moderate connections and we couldn't get into games at all - took forever - painful.  Also I did try to play Black Ops 2 alone once with Moderate and it was NOT going well at all.

         

        Black Ops 2 seems more random than any other COD I've played - you never know what kind of connection your going to have game to game even if you are in the same lobby.

         

        Its strange.

        • crosby85 Novice 386 posts since
          Sep 22, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          crosby85     Jan 24, 2013 7:20 AM (in response to sstang1)

          So true, I had a game the other night where I started of going 7-0 on HC tdm, but without any host migration I couldn't kill anyone despite getting the jump on them for at least 5 minutes and ended up going 11-19! My playstyle did not change nor did theirs but I went from beast mode to whippit boy in a matter of seconds!

          • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
            May 24, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            sstang1     Jan 24, 2013 7:44 AM (in response to crosby85)

            I have had the same thing happen - usually my best games are the first few of the night and then its almost like the game adjusts and I struggle to go positive.

  • Jampekoo Newbie 22 posts since
    Nov 23, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jampekoo     Jan 24, 2013 6:59 AM (in response to sstang1)

    My experiences about hosting have lately been positive. On few last weeks usually my game has been very smooth and good when i've been a host, only few games have been exceptions.. Dont know if my internet quality affects this, as 100/100 light fibre directly connected to internet without routers/modems in my house should be capable to handle the traffic including theatre stuff. On the first weeks tho, after the game was released, Hosting wasnt this nice.. Dunno why its this way, I think it changed to better after i unplugged my both ps3's from the router and just directly connected them both to internet..

  • Bml_ Calculating status... 28 posts since
    Jan 19, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    Bml_     Jan 24, 2013 7:47 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I see lots of people complain about being host, and if that's giving you a disadvantage then that's not a problem, but I never notice anything worse. Every time I'm host (which happens more often than not after a host migration) I seem to do better, but this might just be a placebo. Also, when I'm the host from the beginning of a game, it joins everyone 3 seconds before the games starts every time, which is a bit odd. But staying on topic, it is incredibly annoying to be losing gun fights just because you have a better connection than the rest of the people in your lobby.

  • sstang1 Expert 1,738 posts since
    May 24, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    sstang1     Jan 24, 2013 10:37 AM (in response to sstang1)

    Just downgraded my internet package from 40Mbps down and 6Mbps up - to 20Mbps down and 2Mbps up

     

    Curious to see if I notice any difference for better or worse.

  • legguh Newbie 34 posts since
    Aug 20, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    legguh     Jan 25, 2013 6:38 AM (in response to sstang1)

    I had a pretty severe "host disadvantage" problem on Black Ops 1 and Modern Warfare 3.  I have a strong connection just outside NYC and I get host a lot.

     

    The real problem is framerate.  It's not lag that hurts the hosts but with theater mode and all the other memory stresses that the newer games put on the ps3, the host just can not keep up with the fps, so frames are dropped and it appears choppy.  (One of the more extreme instances is host on Summit when a Napalm Strike hits and breaks the windows.)

     

    With all that being said, I don't really have a noticeable problem on Black Ops 2 when I am host.  I did install the textures to my HDD which I think helps somewhat, so if you haven't done that I suggest you do.  One of the reasons I kinda liked BO2 was that it was playable on host for me (something I couldn't say about Mw3 on launch).

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