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1737 Views 29 Replies Latest reply: Dec 7, 2012 2:06 PM by Vernetti RSS
CowboySr Master 3,765 posts since
Jan 24, 2012

Where does 3arch/IW get their feedback from?

Posted by CowboySr on Dec 7, 2012 9:09 AM

This is the3rd year in a row I feel this series is catering to someone other than the avg COD fan. I'm curious to know where they get this feedback from cause its not from any of the people on my friends list and certainly not from the majority of people on these forums.

 

Where were the 1000 posts on how we wanted skill based matchmaking? Where are the 1000 threads about how we want tiny cluttered maps that all encourage constant 4 foot engagements? Where are the 1000 threads on how we want 50 UAVs running a game? Where are the 1000 threads about how I dont want to have to aim in a shooter game anymore? Where are the 1000 threads on how we want quickscoping to be easier every year? Where are the 1000 threads on how we want more detailed graphics in lieu of better gameplay?

 

I probably spend too much time on these forums, but I can tell you that every time I see a sit down interview of a developer stating,"We've been listening to the community", I clinch my hands.     I'm 100% convinced that this"community" they get feed back from is their 10 yr old little brothers and employees playing on a LAN system after work hours.

 

The number one concern should be them figuring out how these games are laggier today then they were 8 year ago. Not what weapons need to be balanced.

1737 Views     
  • Bannedbydictators Newbie 14 posts since
    Dec 6, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Bannedbydictators     Dec 7, 2012 9:16 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    We just a grain of sand on a beach. The games have become influenced by a new majority. An estimated guess? 7-15 year olds.

  • zombies4lyfe Apprentice 640 posts since
    May 4, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    zombies4lyfe     Dec 7, 2012 9:22 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    I have been wondering this aswell, i have seen game after game have complaints about lag, and dedicated servers but they never have a solution for it. They need to get out of their old habits and actually spend 3-4 years making a game with dedicated servers so that everyone has an equal chance in a gun fight. When it comes down to it, the person with the best aim should be winning those gun fights.

     

    I dont know if you saw the thread i had back in may about zombie pro perks, but that thread boomed and i havnt seen a scratch of my thread in their actual game. The thread has 50,000 + views now and i have not seen any improvment.

  • Run_N_Gunning_Camper Master 2,217 posts since
    Mar 27, 2012
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    Run_N_Gunning_Camper     Dec 7, 2012 9:27 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    I agree with everything you said. I still don't get where Treyarch got the idea that people wants to play like MLG PROs. Is it from their little kids? Their kids wants to be MLG or QSing pros? It seems like Treyarch is listening to the wrong crowd. Either that or Vahn made a mistake and took BO2 in the wrong direction.

     

    The number 1 issue here is the lag and I think the game lags because I'm getting paired with people who are hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Treyarch is doing everything to baby the lesser skilled players. That's why we got this skill based matchmaking. Yes, they took out the Deathstreaks and put on skill based matchmaking to protect the  lesser skilled. Now we are lagging and they seem unaware to the issue.

     

    I made a secondary account and had my SPM and KD suck on it. I was getting matched with lesser skilled players but not once did I noticed the lag. Now that the KD is > 1 and the SPM is breaking 300-500 depending on the game mode, I am experiencing lag once again just like on my main account. Coincidence? I don't think so.

     

    I honestly think the root of the number 1 problem on this game, the lag, is a by-product of the skill based matchmaking.

    • Delta9 Newbie 61 posts since
      Nov 17, 2011
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      Delta9     Dec 7, 2012 9:25 AM (in response to Run_N_Gunning_Camper)

      agree

    • CowboySr Master 3,765 posts since
      Jan 24, 2012
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      CowboySr     Dec 7, 2012 9:29 AM (in response to Run_N_Gunning_Camper)

      Just to be clear, 3arch never had deathstreaks, thats an IW thing. With MW4 in production right now, Im sure they'll be back. But I guess thats the point again, because IW is no better. People arent screaming anywhere for more deathstreaks.

      • Run_N_Gunning_Camper Master 2,217 posts since
        Mar 27, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Run_N_Gunning_Camper     Dec 7, 2012 9:41 AM (in response to CowboySr)

        I know it's an IW thing but it's there for the lesser skilled. On this COD, Treyarch basically made a walled playground for them. I know that the lesser skilled players are the majority and they're the ones who brings in the cash but this is not the way to do it. I felt like we are second class citizens here.

  • Rednecksniper39 Master 5,701 posts since
    Nov 15, 2011
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    Rednecksniper39     Dec 7, 2012 9:32 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    CowboySr wrote:

     

     

    The number one concern should be them figuring out how these games are laggier today then they were 8 year ago. Not what weapons need to be balanced.

    I think part of this problem falls back to the maps. Back in the days of MW2 the maps were huge. Meaning less of the constant run and gun and more of the long range fighting. When you get the extremely small/cluttered maps and everyone is constantly moving causing more things information wise to be sent back and forth. I understand that they tried to make the maps small to avoid camping but what is wrong with camping in the first place? IMO only really bad players can't kill someone who is not moving and you know exactly where they are.

     

    Oh and they have tweaked with matchmaking trying to give everyone a level playing field.

  • Bannedbydictators Newbie 14 posts since
    Dec 6, 2012
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    Bannedbydictators     Dec 7, 2012 9:40 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    I find it odd that they put so much focus on this MLG/Pro competitive mode and it has the least amount of players in it. Obviously this wasn't even needed. Some people enjoy it, and that's fine. However, they went even deeper and put skill-based matchmaking in the public games too!

     

    Just a strange decision to put skill-based MM in public games when it's obvious that not too many people even play or like the competitive game mode. Odd.

  • rankismet Master 10,992 posts since
    May 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    rankismet     Dec 7, 2012 9:49 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    CowboySr wrote:

     

    This is the3rd year in a row I feel this series is catering to someone other than the avg COD fan. I'm curious to know where they get this feedback from cause its not from any of the people on my friends list and certainly not from the majority of people on these forums.

     

    Where were the 1000 posts on how we wanted skill based matchmaking? Where are the 1000 threads about how we want tiny cluttered maps that all encourage constant 4 foot engagements? Where are the 1000 threads on how we want 50 UAVs running a game? Where are the 1000 threads about how I dont want to have to aim in a shooter game anymore? Where are the 1000 threads on how we want quickscoping to be easier every year? Where are the 1000 threads on how we want more detailed graphics in lieu of better gameplay?

     

    I probably spend too much time on these forums, but I can tell you that every time I see a sit down interview of a developer stating,"We've been listening to the community", I clinch my hands.     I'm 100% convinced that this"community" they get feed back from is their 10 yr old little brothers and employees playing on a LAN system after work hours.

     

    The number one concern should be them figuring out how these games are laggier today then they were 8 year ago. Not what weapons need to be balanced.

     

    I do wonder sometimes as well.

  • CowboySr Master 3,765 posts since
    Jan 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    CowboySr     Dec 7, 2012 9:53 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    I wish there was someone out there to blindside one of these guys with this question in an interview like tobuscus or someone, instead of these prescripted boring informercials I always see.  Noone seems to have the brass for it though.

    • Run_N_Gunning_Camper Master 2,217 posts since
      Mar 27, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Run_N_Gunning_Camper     Dec 7, 2012 10:05 AM (in response to CowboySr)

      I would like to have an anonymous Treyarch employee to spill the beans with inside infos on why are we getting all these stuff. Is it the management to blame or was it Vahn himself?

  • sickazitgetzz Newbie 33 posts since
    Aug 9, 2011
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    sickazitgetzz     Dec 7, 2012 10:01 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    Do you not remember all the t threads crying about ghost   and campers? Treyarc took it to the extreme but they for the most part cut down on that. Its a be careful watch you wish for kinda thing. Y'all wanted everyone to be rushers. Well here you go. You got it.

    • Rednecksniper39 Master 5,701 posts since
      Nov 15, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Rednecksniper39     Dec 7, 2012 10:03 AM (in response to sickazitgetzz)

      sickazitgetzz wrote:

      Y'all wanted everyone to be rushers. Well here you go. You got it.

      I never asked for that. Don't you put words in my mouth.

    • parnezzi Apprentice 1,003 posts since
      Aug 5, 2012
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      parnezzi     Dec 7, 2012 11:27 AM (in response to sickazitgetzz)

      they weren't that bad in the first place, they were annoying yeah but half the time they where stuck to a building because the soldiers had bargin bin ghillie suits.

      which you could easily avoid them or just stun or flash them and go kill them because 9/10 they never moved from that same corner.

  • SheSaidNo Apprentice 514 posts since
    Dec 5, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    SheSaidNo     Dec 7, 2012 10:20 AM (in response to CowboySr)

    There is a developer mentality, not just in gaming but in technology in general, to tell the customer what they want.  Not listen to their request.  Apple is that way and for the most part, they've been successful. 

     

    But I think what you're seeing here with BO2 is the other side of that coin.  I believe it's them who want it to go the MLG route.  It's better for their brand.  It's better for sales.  It'll keep them relevant for a few years longer when sales are declining by 15-20% each year.  But the customers themselves didn't respond in kind.  Hence, just the 2,000 or so people on the league matches.

     

    People just want to sit back and relax when they get home from work or school and shoot a few people up before they go back to their daily lives.  This skilled based matchmaking in public matches not only makes the lag worse, but also turns gaming into work.  And sometimes that's okay.  But people want the choice.  Which makes sense when people want to play league instead of public matches. 

     

    The fix is simple for that particular problem.  But we'll see if they go there.

     

    As for all the other problems...

    • ChronoZombie Novice 284 posts since
      Aug 26, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      ChronoZombie     Dec 7, 2012 11:19 AM (in response to SheSaidNo)

      SheSaidNo wrote:

       

       

       

      But I think what you're seeing here with BO2 is the other side of that coin.  I believe it's them who want it to go the MLG route.  It's better for their brand.  It's better for sales.  It'll keep them relevant for a few years longer when sales are declining by 15-20% each year.  But the customers themselves didn't respond in kind.  Hence, just the 2,000 or so people on the league matches.

       

      People just want to sit back and relax when they get home from work or school and shoot a few people up before they go back to their daily lives.  This skilled based matchmaking in public matches not only makes the lag worse, but also turns gaming into work.  And sometimes that's okay.  But people want the choice.  Which makes sense when people want to play league instead of public matches. 

       

       

      I agree, and I hate "Competitive" gaming.  Trying to turn a game into a sport is just stupid, and already ruined WoW.  That game began its death the second they introduced arenas and tried to jockey into e-sports territory where it didn't belong.  CoD can add league play, but who is playing it? Why would they?  The in game stats are meaningless, and if people are really going to play competitively, they'll do so with their own ladders.

    • CowboySr Master 3,765 posts since
      Jan 24, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      CowboySr     Dec 7, 2012 11:35 AM (in response to SheSaidNo)

      I actually think apple products are in demand, because their stuff is made well. I think this is a bad example of the point you are making. I do agree that the league play was meant to cater to the MLGers, which is fine for me. I think its actually a great idea, put not completely thought out properly. I havent played it yet to merit a discussion about it, but I'll try it this weekend.

       

      One of my favorite shooters ever was rainbow6 black arrow for having a clan system with a chain of hierarchy that is similar to how World of Warcraft has ranks within its guild.  If I recall correctly Black arrow was the first to try this "league play" idea and it failed miserably as people weren't looking to get that serious about the game. Of course clans were new back then. I remember searching for games in that mode, and never were we able to find a single game     I've always chalked it up to people just not wanting to get so serious, but we did come across good groups once and awhile and basically have good battles.

       

      I think the matchmaking for the basic game should not be based on player skill, rather a good connection. Matchmaking for League play should be based on clan rank, similar to how the NHL games are now, and go to a monthly playoff system!  League play stats should be separate or omitted for overall stats from regular game play.  Then you will see people play this mode. People that are K/D sensitive don't want their K/Ds battered down because they have chosen to play against good competition on a regular basis.   Before anyone starts trolling about K/D or SPM, I'll just say I don't care about it, but I understand how some people do, and that's what's holding people back from playing it......that's it.

      • SheSaidNo Apprentice 514 posts since
        Dec 5, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        SheSaidNo     Dec 7, 2012 11:46 AM (in response to CowboySr)

        I brought up Apple, because Steve Jobs always had a mentality of, "I don't care what the people are asking for.  I'll tell them what they're asking for."  Apple products weren't always in demand.  But they predicted and developed what would be popular.

         

        I guess my point was just to say that as a developer you have to guess the next big thing for your brand/product line.  And that guess can be informed from your audience, gamers who love and play the game.  Or like you said, they're 10 year-old little brothers.

         

        Innovation is tough to predict. 

  • trialstardragon Master 10,373 posts since
    May 26, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    trialstardragon     Dec 7, 2012 12:38 PM (in response to CowboySr)

    They get their feedback form more than just this site. They use several different media sources. such as twitter and facebook now. So to expect that this is the only place is just foolish and a bit ignorant of the times.

     

    This forum is not the only place they listen to things, so even if it does not show up here does not meant it was not asked for somewhere else.

    • CowboySr Master 3,765 posts since
      Jan 24, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      CowboySr     Dec 7, 2012 12:49 PM (in response to trialstardragon)

      If you read my post I am posting this as a question as to where the people are that are asking for this stuff. I never said this was the only place, so dont assume Im ignorant or foolish. Take the time to read what I am asking please. Show me the 1000s of people with an outcry for these changes theyve made. I follow the twitter and facebook accounts and its not reuested there by the masses.

      • trialstardragon Master 10,373 posts since
        May 26, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        trialstardragon     Dec 7, 2012 12:56 PM (in response to CowboySr)

        It does not have to be 1000's of posts before something is changed in the game. All it takes is one post or a few well thought out and described posts. with good information about why a change is needed or not.

         

        Plus the developers only really need one post/twee/email/pm to start the ball rolling, they then can look at the game information form the telmetrics they get from the servers to see if there is a problem or not and if something should be done.

         

        So do not ever expect to always see 1000's of posts before something has to be done. Nor do they really have to answer you as to why they did it. it is their game, their service, their rules. they decide what is fair, not the players really in the end.

         

        We express an issue, they decide if that issue should be done or not, and even just one voice can get an issue noticed enough to see if something needs to be fixed.

        • CowboySr Master 3,765 posts since
          Jan 24, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          CowboySr     Dec 7, 2012 1:02 PM (in response to trialstardragon)

          ,___,

          {o,O}

          |)``)

          -"-"-

          O RLY?

          • trialstardragon Master 10,373 posts since
            May 26, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            trialstardragon     Dec 7, 2012 1:06 PM (in response to CowboySr)

            Ya RLY!

            • SheSaidNo Apprentice 514 posts since
              Dec 5, 2011
              Currently Being Moderated
              SheSaidNo     Dec 7, 2012 1:46 PM (in response to trialstardragon)

              I saw that video where he mentioned they have a good system for assessing the data on how the game plays.  Some decisions will be more obvious than others.  But I think in those gray areas is where most of people's problems are.  And those will be judgement calls because it seems like no matter what, half the people will be upset.  And right now I just happen to be one of the people in the half upset side.

               

              As for the decisions made on the game design, you're right they don't have to ask a single person.  They can do whatever the hell they want, which they did.  Only time will tell if their decisions were a mistake or not.  And again, my vote leans toward the negative side.

  • English Johnnie Novice 446 posts since
    Nov 21, 2012
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    English Johnnie     Dec 7, 2012 12:57 PM (in response to CowboySr)

    Well they do get their feedback from other sources as well, but it seems they must have been the studio they were working in.

  • Arppis Novice 249 posts since
    Jan 13, 2012
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    Arppis     Dec 7, 2012 1:56 PM (in response to CowboySr)

    They should make public lobbies connection based only.

  • Vernetti Newbie 29 posts since
    Dec 3, 2012
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    Vernetti     Dec 7, 2012 2:06 PM (in response to CowboySr)

    Excellent post, could´nt agree more.

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