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Sicilian_Steel Newbie 51 posts since
Oct 13, 2011

Treyarc You just LOST my money. (why are you penalizing stealth)

Posted by Sicilian_Steel on Sep 10, 2012 8:26 PM

i was all set to buy this game. The campain looks sick. I was soo excited for the cool campain variations and strateegy missions. Also Zombies looks to be the best yet. At first multiplayer looked great.

 

However now i relize that multiplayer is engineered to reward a SINGLE style of play. running and gunning. Multiple modifications have been made to stamp out any player who remains still. I understand where treyarc was initially coming from. Camper can be annoying. However, just cuase you are not moving doesnt mean you are a camper.

 

Stealth is atcually a important play style. Crashing about with full sprint, blundering into rooms and spraying anything that moves isnt the only way to play the game. In fact SMART players know the old adage "speed kills". its a dead give away to your position and it pulls away your gun increasing reaction time. So what you may do instead is creep up around corners. Rather than jumping in like a fool, you could wait outside a building after throwing a flashbang, wait for your quarry to come to you. Another example of where not moving can be useful is when being chased. Some one jumps on you and gains the advatage so you retreataround a corner and wait for them to run into your trap. NOPE they now have a gun that can see through walls. Now when you are snaking around all your enmey has to do is aim through thier scope. and pinpoint you. Ill admit i can see a fix to this gun. Have the bullets do the scanning i thought so that the gun only gives you see through abiltiy after you fire to scan an area, This at least gives the other guy a chance before you mow hm down with FMJ with out him even knwing you are there!

 

However, i moved on and continued to watch them reiterate thier new CODcast features. But that was just the first strike. THe Video went on to continue a change to the ghost perk. Now ghost only covers you when you are moving! Are you KIDDING me. The point of using ghost is to remain hidden so you cant be seen and constantly moving is not going to help you with this, Here is another example of Trearc disrespecting another playstyle just becuase they think thier special child, run and gun style is all supreem.

 

Defense is actually a ligitmet playstlye. When fighting you lose the advatage when you assault someone elses position. So defense is the prefered mode. Now players have become frustrated with this disadvatage, but now trearc seeks to remove defense entirely! What will ensue is a bunch of idiot repatedly runing into eachother! Imagine planting a bomb in Search and Destroy. Last man left on your team you sneak into thier base and manage to plant. There are two of them but you have the advatage of supreise. They dont know where you are. Plus you have ghost so what can go wrong. One of the enmies flips up his UAV and now you are forced to run around in circles to keep off the map! You have too choices and both of them lead to fighting a two on one battle where the enemy can spot you. either you stay put and get revealed on the map. Or you are forced to move where any observant eye will pick you out. either way, unless you are fighting kids a week off breast milk, you will lose the battle.

 

Trearc needs to know there is a diffrence between defending and camping. Defending is what any good sniper does, lies down and provieds overwatch on a large area of the map. Camping is hiding in the center room of the map, a claymore at both doors, aiming down the sights of an AA12 at the entry way. Both players  are not moving. However one is playing with a positve playstyle, that doenst cause the anyoed groans of a camper. In order to root out one pest tre arc is burning the ENTIRE corn feild.

 

And now lets talk about camping, the evil Taboo thats name causes ripples of fear in the trearc office room. When i find a camper i dont freak out. if he kills me once i can exploit the great flaw of camper mentaility to get a kill. The flaw is, that campers dont move! this itself is already a punishment. Once a i get killed by a camper i respawn and march right in the other exit hes not watching and kill HIM. Often i find a smarter camper who has covered himself with claymores and the like to be protected from multiple entryways. Then i learn where these secondary defenses are and avoid them and kill him. Every once in a blue moon i find the really Intellegent kind who constantly works to foil me. However then it just becomes a battle between me and him, our own personal engagement. I enjoyed busting campers out of thier little holes.

 

However i want to take this disscussion further back to the reason why trearc does so much nerfing. I see it as starting with black ops right in the after math of MW2. A LOT of things were overpowerd in MW2 and i mean a lot. You could always find something to be frustrated with wheather it was Quick scoping, or commando lunge, or last stand, or pian killer, or one man army nube tubes, or overpowerd shot guns, or unlimeted claymores, ect. You name a feature and some one had at one time complained about it. Now plenty of frustration revolved around this overpoweredness. So when tre arc made black ops they nerfed the hell out of EVERYTHING. Scavenger only for guns, sleight of hand not for sniper rifles, toob tubes cant be paired with other attachments, noob tubes did less damage, shot guns were primaries, launchers didnt rengenrate ammo, killstreaks didnt stack, and so on covering every consiveable problem that some one could cry to their mom about. They thought that fixing every single person's complaint would fix it. The effort is admirable, but the idea is all wrong. By doing this, tre arc made the only play style worth pursuing was run and gun, and assult rifles and submachine guns compleatly domminited.

 

Trearc must have looked at running and gunning and said. "Look at this playstyle! its balanced for both sides, its hard to get overpowerd high killstreaks, and its action packed." they thought they had found the playstlye that was perfect. But in thier quest for perfection they lost the fundelmentle element that makes moderwarfare multiplayer superior. The sheer variety. of playstyles availible made the multiplayer of infinity ward gmaes better. So yeha some one is camping his ass off inside the building. Okay so you can noob tube his ass out of there. Someones newbtubing you too much. Run over there with your commando marathon light wieght class and stab him. Some one keeps knifing you, okay whip out your powerfull secondary shotgun and blast his head off. being shot gunned too much. Use a sniper rifle to pick him off from a distance, if he gets to close you can still quickscope. Some one keeps quickscoping you. okay, hide inside and wait for him with claymores. when he comes in dispatch him. This was the balance of the MW universe, not some externally apllied modifiers by the developers. By letting the commuity decide for itself you leave them at least the freedom to choose. They retain the dignity to choose to use what ever playstlye they want. They may choose to go 1 and 12, letting the other team get repeated killstreaks. They may loose often and be whooped soundly. But it is thier choice and they were given a fighting shot. They werent forced by the games very construct to act one way.

 

Black Ops did alot of things right. (a campaign that actually made sense for once, thankyou) The campain was emersive and viared enough that it didnt turn into a shooting gallery and it also provided quite a good plot. Zombies (my favorite thing ever) was a huge success as well and i logged countless hours into it even after outgrowing the muliplayer. But multiplayer was a failure. Even a hodge podge of teams brought in to fill the gap left by infity ward implosion did a better job with MW3. and want to know what Treacs biggest flaw was. It wasnt being absent minded and dumb. Heck no! it was mirco managing to much. They tried to go in with such a fine comb to "fix" what was wrong with multiplayer that they destroyed the very thing that made it fun.

 

So when i looked into black ops trailers i was pleasnetly suprised. i saw good features being added in campaign, such a choices, a breath of fresh air long overdue for the COD sereis. I was intrigued by a bold move to move into the future and hooked by the signifigant credentials involed in writing the plot. When i heared about the more free create a class options i began to get excited. Has Trearc learned? i wondered. however as gameplay came out i quickly relized i was being fooled by flashy 2020 tech. Its the same old Tre Arc. Single player will be phenomonal, again. Zombies, will be stellar, again. But multiplayer will always miss that special "fun" ingrident a defeciancy that will leave me empty as i put in hours of gameplay. Finally this starvation will drive me from the multiplayer from the game (though possibly not zombies). Ill put Black Ops 2 away on the shelf, in startling resemblance to my actions last year. Then ill twiddle away my time of less signifigant games as i sit back and begin my long wait, for Modern Warfare 17.

18769 Views     
  • dracardi151 Novice 166 posts since
    Jun 16, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    yeah read first couple of paragraphs but when I noticed you were writing a novela I stopped and just scanned the rest. Yeah I get you dont like the fact you just cant sit still for a given length of time, im sure I may even miss it a bit too. However there's going to be lots of options to compensate the loss. The fact that the speed of the game is reduced compared to the previous should help too. Give the game a chance before condeming it.

  • bogfather07 Novice 126 posts since
    Jul 18, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    i have to agree, i always use ghost but by no means im not a camper.

    ive already cancelled my preorder, ill still pick the game up but ill do so after xmas when i can pick up a preowned copy.

    to me it seems their trying to cater to the pros only with the stuff their implimenting

  • smokesdope Master 2,000 posts since
    Dec 3, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Thank god I hate campers and I'm glad Treyark are focusing on the "cough" Pro players . I don't like this idea of a noob friendly game . You should be bad at the beginning that's the point ! And to reward bad play just seems stupid and alienates the (hard)core players that buy the game year in and year out .

       Stealth is a important part of the game but your still hidden if your going TOWARDS the objective and not sitting in a corner like a d'bag . Then the perk will be fine and will encourage people to move more giving better and faster paced games :)

  • nicedrewishfela Master 8,321 posts since
    Sep 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    First of all, Spell Check is not Overpowered, so please use it.

     

    Secondly, I have never seen a more non-sensical rant, and that's saying a lot as I've been on the MW3 forums.

     

    Nobody is making a game catered to ONE play style. Change is GOOD. Lets analyze this, shall we?

     

    The game still has both claymores and Betties, so if you decide to play your selfish, sit in one spot game play style you will still have protection.

     

    UAVs are remarkably easy to take down, so if you have even one player on your team equip a Lock On Launcher, they won't stay in the air long.

     

    Some of the killstreaks are, in fact, beneficial to a more campy play style. Guardian Suppression systems? Don't think that's going to be the overwhelming choice of Run and Gunners. Counter UAVs? Perfect for the Corner Camper. Sentry guns? Campers just love those!

     

    Awareness? So you campers can sit in corners and hear people approaching!

     

    Target Finder? Perfect for your friendly neighborhood head glitcher!

     

    Here's the deal. What your ignorant post fails to realize is that they are, for the first time, truly allowing us to build the class WE want without constraints placed upon us by the developers. WE get to set up our class exactly how we want it. They give us an inch, you greedy people want a mile.

     

    You are complaining about a perk that hasn't fully been refined yet and that has one minor downside. You don't know yet how its going to work at final release. How long you have to be still for before showing up on a UAV. How many people are going to even be using UAVs. You are acting like the UAV is an unbeatable killstreak, when its easily taken out. So you show up as a red dot for a second... players still have to take you out, right?

     

    Don't act superior in your post like Run and Gunners don't have a place in this game. They have a right to play that way and play a role in the success of a good team. Not everyone runs around like that, however. Most effective players move tactically around the board, moving from cover to cover, checking their corners, and using visual, communicated, audio, and yes, intelligence cues such as that gathered from a UAV to flank or attack their opponents.

     

    Stealth definitely has a role in the game. Its what I base my game play on with various degrees of success. But stealth doesn't mean sitting in corners or head-glitching over a wall, or even laying prone in one spot all game. If that's how you choose to play, hey, that's your choice. But this is Call of Duty, not hide and go seek. In battle, a soldier who doesn't displace and change his position is going to be spotted, and that is all the new ghost perk is doing. So please spare us all your diatribe about how Treyarch is only supporting one game play style, when they've obviously gone out of their way to try to accommodate numerous game play styles.

     

    The game hasn't been released yet... nobody knows how these game mechanics are going to work in the final release, and yet the negative posts have already begun. If you don't want to buy the game, none of us are going to cry over the fact you aren't in our lobbies. IF you aren't buying the game because you aren't brave enough to get out of your comfort zone and learn to adapt and adjust, well that just speaks to your character.

     

    This community never ceases to amaze me. We beg the Developers for innovation and to keep the game new and fresh. And when they do so, people find ways to gripe because they can't play exactly the same way they have in the past. Grow up and learn that the world isn't going to change for you, sometimes you have to adjust to the world.

  • deamonomic Expert 1,573 posts since
    Aug 24, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    to be honest i think the new set up will fit me well im always on the move... even if it is at a slow pace. hunting them. but alas, I will miss the days of hunting campers. i might even keep M-BS-3 just so i can have fun hunting them.

     

    on the other hand camping has become a problem in cod. its all anyone seems to do. I have come across maby one team that could beat me run n gun. every other loss was due to campers (and i dont lose alot) and team mates who didnt know how to hunt properly.

     

    I dont have a problem with people camping, what I have a problem is when people camp and then brag about winning. I ask this, you have 2 players, both play tdm, both have a 2.0 kd, one got this by setting up and waiting for enemies. the other got his by hunting campers. whos better? Honestly id pick the hunter because if he really needs or wanted to he could camp himself. and if hes good at hunting he will know how to set up. (random post I iz ^)

  • vims1990 Master 7,510 posts since
    Aug 13, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Damn, that's some essay you got there. A+ for Effort

     

    People really don't seem to be taken in by this change

  • whiteknight1902 Expert 1,489 posts since
    Aug 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    I'm surprised that ghost wont work with people sitting still, I thought the sight that lets you see people not moving was enough of a counter to ghost users.

     

    Personally I run and gun but I never really hav a problem with campers but having this new effect to ghost should have meant the point requirement for uav's a bit higher imo.

     

    I remember the no ghost playlist in black ops and that was terrible with all the uav spam, that mode was basically a cod version of pacman.

  • xblbw Apprentice 491 posts since
    Apr 1, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    Wow, world record rant attempt. Congrats.

     

    What do campers say to rushers? Adapt.

     

    Thats what people pissed about ghost need to do. Sacrifice a point, and grab a launcher. Earn a counter - UAV.

     

    You could actually just swap ghost for a launcer and breakeven on create-a-class points, and pick up some points towards your streaks droping uav's.

     

    Do you even know what degree of movement is required yet to keep you concealed? It might not even be a big deal.

  • The_Bolt_Action_Man Novice 291 posts since
    Oct 8, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    I definalely agree with you that's why IW games tend to be more fun because they allow all sorts of play styles you can camp, rush and quickscope etc all you want.  Black ops 1 is definately better than mw3 but I enjoyed mw2 more because of the variety. Meh black ops was ok in my opinion I did enjoy it but I thought is was a bit too restrictive but 3arc are trying to change that with the 10 point system and yeah smgs and ARS definately did dominate blops 1 the sniper selection was pathetic in that game the L96a1 was the only good one.

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