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1632 Views     27 Replies
1632 Views 26 Replies Latest reply: Jan 22, 2013 5:17 PM by darkwitness RSS
Foxman350 Novice 251 posts since
Dec 26, 2012

Matchmaking is the issue?

Posted by Foxman350 on Jan 22, 2013 7:35 AM

Alright, so most people in the "know" are saying that lag comp/delay is not the issue.

 

I guess for me that leaves matchmaking then:

 

With my preferences set on best, I would assume I should not get thrown into lobbies where I am red bar'ing or 2 bar'ing.  Am I correct on this assumption, or is this where  the game is broken.

 

Generally every game where there is more than one person with yellow bars(or worse), I tend start beating my head against the wall asking wtf...

 

Most games where everyone is green bar'd things seem to be ok, but on occasion these lobbies are just as bad.

 

I've just started leaving any lobbies where mine or anyone elses bars are not green, it is just not worth my time.

1632 Views     
  • Foxman350 Novice 251 posts since
    Dec 26, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Foxman350     Jan 22, 2013 7:38 AM (in response to Foxman350)

    Oh and another issue, I have seen on numerous instances where connections  will be green at the start of the game, and then at some point all the bars will become unstable.  All this without a host migration.

    • TurdFerguson00 Apprentice 937 posts since
      Oct 11, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      TurdFerguson00     Jan 22, 2013 8:03 AM (in response to Foxman350)

      its called a lag switch... they have spread like wildfire and its the single biggest game breaker there is..

       

      and for any ignorant dork that wants to say otherwise... open your eyes in-game... and if that isnt enough, search ebay and see how many they have sold... lol

       

      it can be seen as lag comp or bad matchmaking... these are just symptoms of the same core problem.. players are screwing the system so it cant possibly do its job properly if it cant get accurate readings from all players..

       

      people think a lag switch is only useful when you are hosting... thats how people freeze the game and kill everyone while frozen... its more of a benefit when not host because you can introduce latency into the system which retards the connection of the host and anyone with a better connection to the host..

       

      but since your latency isnt real, you gain huge advantages over everyone else while breaking the entire system for legit players..

      • maccabi Master 11,832 posts since
        May 31, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        maccabi     Jan 22, 2013 2:43 PM (in response to TurdFerguson00)

        TurdFerguson00 wrote:

         

        its called a lag switch... they have spread like wildfire and its the single biggest game breaker there is..

         

        and for any ignorant dork that wants to say otherwise... open your eyes in-game... and if that isnt enough, search ebay and see how many they have sold... lol

         

        it can be seen as lag comp or bad matchmaking... these are just symptoms of the same core problem.. players are screwing the system so it cant possibly do its job properly if it cant get accurate readings from all players..

         

        people think a lag switch is only useful when you are hosting... thats how people freeze the game and kill everyone while frozen... its more of a benefit when not host because you can introduce latency into the system which retards the connection of the host and anyone with a better connection to the host..

         

        but since your latency isnt real, you gain huge advantages over everyone else while breaking the entire system for legit players..

        absolute rollox

  • Youngnoble Novice 132 posts since
    Jun 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Youngnoble     Jan 22, 2013 7:43 AM (in response to Foxman350)

    Sadly the best option only checks hosts quality  during search ( everybody else in that lobby can be not optimal for you ). Also people now seem to think throttling their connection makes the game play better and there's nothing matchmaking can do to fix that.

    • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
      Dec 6, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 8:09 AM (in response to Youngnoble)

      Throttling connection does nothing, its a placebo effect. People only hurt themself by doing this (and everyone else in the lobby).

      • darkwitness Novice 345 posts since
        Dec 14, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        darkwitness     Jan 22, 2013 8:17 AM (in response to FixBlops2)

        it's a catch 22...

         

        People resort to throttling their connection because they are frustrated with the rediculous delay and instadeath...  they throttle so they can get a better game, in the processes now everyone else is lagging behind them so now they (everyone else) will resort to doing the same.

         

        I have not seen it make much of a difference in Blops2 but in MW3 throttling made a huge difference for me personally.

         

        Back  in Cod4 days it was the opposite, I would be kicking everyone off my connection and make sure nothing else was running other then the game.

         

        this game has issues and a LOT of the stuff people complain about all stem from the same issue.

         

        personally I still believe it's something to do with the smoothing code that was added, but thats just my oppinion.

        • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
          Dec 6, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 8:55 AM (in response to darkwitness)

          The thing with the network smoothing aka lag compensation is that you send your position (and what you doing) to the host second by second (i take second as a example), its getting updated constantly, its not always 100% syncron.

           

          Imagine a line, the line is your travel way and now add dots every meter you walk, the dot is the information you send to the host where you currently are and what you doing, the smoothing code makes it look like a smooth animation, thats all it does.

           

          Now here is the problem. If someone has a unstable internet connection, higher jitter or packet loss then some of the dots will be cutted off, and this creates skipping frames, invisible frames or simply teleporting.

           

          The thing with instant deaths is that when you shoot someone while he is shooting at you and you have a high ping to the host then you mostly get killed by 1 bullets (this is what it looks on your screen), basically you are already dead on the Host side when you aim down sight because the enemy has a better connection to host than you. It has nothing to do with lag compensation, its just connection advantage.

           

          One other thing is, everything you do will be cancelt when you die, all your bullets you unloaded into your opponement do vanish, just like the rockets. Its that simple.

           

          All of this combined gives players with a low ping to host a huge advantage and players with a unstable connection unfair advantage (sometimes) and disadvantage both at the same time.

  • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
    Dec 6, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 8:05 AM (in response to Foxman350)

    Yes its the matchmaking, don't believe me? play this game in the morning when no clan/party is online and you will see how amazing it runs, just like good old CoD4/MW2.

     

    When you play it in the peak times when all the clans are online then you will always been put with people across the world and vs. clans only.

     

    Problem with playing vs. clans is if one of them are getting Host and they live near to each other and have good ping then you get lot of instant deaths. I did tested this with a friend and i was in Godmode almost every match, its disgusting how unfair this game is when you know what you do.

     

    Black Ops 2 problem is, it focus to much on skill rather than connection. Also the Host selection is bad, it picks the average connection instead of the best in the lobby.

    • DaveW Novice 265 posts since
      Dec 2, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      DaveW     Jan 22, 2013 8:28 AM (in response to FixBlops2)

      This is my experience somewhat...... when I play on my own at peak time's i get pasted. As soon as i play off peak time on my own my experience improves considerably. Whenever I play with a party  usually get good games regardless of whether its peak time or not.

       

      I've played enough to have a 'gut feeling' about these things and when i am going to be in for a night of pain!

      • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
        Dec 6, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 8:35 AM (in response to DaveW)

        Bingo, its exactly how you explained it.

         

        A solution for playing solo at peak times is Mercenary playlist, i just don't like how many modes are included.

        • LordPookums Novice 170 posts since
          Dec 14, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          LordPookums     Jan 22, 2013 10:20 AM (in response to FixBlops2)

          This is strange, but I've actually noticed almost the opposite. 3pm to 9pm EST when more players are usually playing, I usually get better games(still at least slightly bad, but better). Once it reaches midnight EST to 3am EST I notice a few things:

           

          1. Pure Clans playing(As a lone wolf, this means I'm likely to get a crap team, and will experience players on the clan team attempting to spawn trap)

           

          2. OHK (I notice more instant kills and godlike reflexes at this time)

           

          3. Clan host (Someone on clan team gets host, transforming their entire team into godmode, making the apparent disparity that much worse).

           

          It gets better sometimes when there is a 4-5 person party in the game. Then I get an allied group on my side as well...however the team with the host usually has 0HK advantage.

          • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
            Dec 6, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 10:27 AM (in response to LordPookums)

            Can i ask you where you are from and how your K/D and SPM is? do you play solo or with party?

            • LordPookums Novice 170 posts since
              Dec 14, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated
              LordPookums     Jan 22, 2013 11:27 AM (in response to FixBlops2)

              I am from Maine.

               

              SPM is 270 TDM(weekly I get higher now to around 300-400). K/D TDM is just above 1.5 and rising(Weekly I get between 2 to 3 K/D average in TDM).

               

              Objective Mode SPM I range from 370 to 450, weekly sometimes higher depending on mode. K/D ranges(I focus more on objective then killing usually). I think its around 1.25 to 1.35 average in those games with TONS of objective captures/defends/etc.

               

              Overall when it combines. TDM, FFA, and objective I have around 300SPM and K/D 1.4. That might be lowered from where it was three weeks ago. As I've done nothing but 5+ hours of pure weapon leveling daily since then.

               

              In the Global Leaderboards on the site it says Im 4.07m Score position 20,000 and SPM 306...but the basic general SPM on the icon says 292 so not sure what is up. Also using the elite app inside the game I was position 12,900 or something and rising in global(I imagine its higher now) with a higher overall total score in millions...and SPM differs there. So I'm not sure which global check is most accurate(if any).

               

              The sorts of players I play against range in position. I usually have 1-2 players of 5 digit rank in my lobby. The highest rank in any mode I ever played against was a legitimate position of 36(do not ask me how someone managed that with all the players who play one REALLY high score game and then never touch the gametype again.)

               

              So I'm playing against what seems like the best in the respective gamemodes to great players to good players to decent players...with rarer worse players it seems.

               

              I think SPM is the sole driver of matchmaking IMO.

               

              I play Pure solo. No group efforts. I player Core not HC(only in rare cases). Mostly I play Bonus and TDM. (Vast vast vast majority in core TDM).

    • rankismet Master 10,990 posts since
      May 23, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      rankismet     Jan 22, 2013 11:39 AM (in response to FixBlops2)

      FixBlops2 wrote:

       

      Yes its the matchmaking, don't believe me? play this game in the morning when no clan/party is online and you will see how amazing it runs, just like good old CoD4/MW2.

       

      When you play it in the peak times when all the clans are online then you will always been put with people across the world and vs. clans only.

       

      Problem with playing vs. clans is if one of them are getting Host and they live near to each other and have good ping then you get lot of instant deaths. I did tested this with a friend and i was in Godmode almost every match, its disgusting how unfair this game is when you know what you do.

       

      Black Ops 2 problem is, it focus to much on skill rather than connection. Also the Host selection is bad, it picks the average connection instead of the best in the lobby.

       

      Host selection and matchmaking have been... and will always be... the issue.

       

      But party matchmaking?

       

      If you have a group of six with people West, Central, and East... you will often start a lobby with just your own group. Then people will start to fill in... but who are they pinging to?

       

      Your party leader? Or anyone in the lobby?

       

      I'm guessing anyone since it will then often "find the best host" even though the lobby already had one.

       

       

      The game needs to:

      * Find lobbies for parties based of the party leader.

      * Fill lobbies by pinging to the current host.

      * Not change host unless host leaves.

       

      All lobbies would run smoother.

      • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
        Dec 6, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 12:16 PM (in response to rankismet)

        Honestly, i don't know. Maccabi has mentioned it somewhere i believe. Lets hope he sees this thread so he can help you out.

        • rankismet Master 10,990 posts since
          May 23, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          rankismet     Jan 22, 2013 1:22 PM (in response to FixBlops2)

          FixBlops2 wrote:

           

          Honestly, i don't know. Maccabi has mentioned it somewhere i believe. Lets hope he sees this thread so he can help you out.

           

          I'm friends with Macc... this isn't his area of expertise.

          • maccabi Master 11,832 posts since
            May 31, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            maccabi     Jan 22, 2013 2:42 PM (in response to rankismet)

            rankismet wrote:

             

            FixBlops2 wrote:

             

            Honestly, i don't know. Maccabi has mentioned it somewhere i believe. Lets hope he sees this thread so he can help you out.

             

            I'm friends with Macc... this isn't his area of expertise.

            true my area of expertise lies solely in spelling and grammar.

      • maccabi Master 11,832 posts since
        May 31, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        maccabi     Jan 22, 2013 2:48 PM (in response to rankismet)

        rankismet wrote:

         

        The game needs to:

        1 ) Find lobbies for parties based of the party leader.

        2) Fill lobbies by pinging to the current host.

        3) Not change host unless host leaves.

         

        All lobbies would run smoother.

        1) it does

        2) it sort of does, but a party joining an exisiting session will cause a new host race

        3) cant do that as a host while suitable "on paper" at start of match might not be suitable once game starts" thats what will trigger a host migration when the game notices the host cant cope

        • rankismet Master 10,990 posts since
          May 23, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          rankismet     Jan 22, 2013 4:37 PM (in response to maccabi)

          1) Check. But then when it doesn't do...

          2) ... ping to the host of the lobby you are trying to join. Bad match.

          3) Then even if the lobby works, a new host can be selected at the end. And it bases that off all of the peeps in the lobby.

           

           

          Having stability of the host will make for much smoother matchmaking and gameplay.

           

          And congrats on the proper-ish grammar and spelling. :)

  • darkwitness Novice 345 posts since
    Dec 14, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    darkwitness     Jan 22, 2013 8:10 AM (in response to Foxman350)

    depends who are the people you say are in the "know".

  • xmrythem Apprentice 933 posts since
    Dec 3, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    xmrythem     Jan 22, 2013 9:04 AM (in response to Foxman350)

    matchmaking is never an issue for me. Last night, our group of 6 could not get a team to stay. We played for about 4 hours, and EVERY game the oppsing team had 2 players left in about 2 minutes into the game.

     

    more than anything i feel its people quitting, which then leads into random player getting thrown to the wolves which then leads to more people quitting. Its an endless cycle seemingly every game.

    • Ungrateful_Dead Novice 411 posts since
      May 30, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Ungrateful_Dead     Jan 22, 2013 10:06 AM (in response to xmrythem)

      xmrythem wrote:

       

      matchmaking is never an issue for me. Last night, our group of 6 could not get a team to stay. We played for about 4 hours, and EVERY game the oppsing team had 2 players left in about 2 minutes into the game.

       

      more than anything i feel its people quitting, which then leads into random player getting thrown to the wolves which then leads to more people quitting. Its an endless cycle seemingly every game.

       

      Your issue with people quitting is a slightly different, but related subject than the matchmaking.

       

      When you are running with a full party, obviously you typically have a tactical advantage in a lobby of mostly randoms.  If that advantage turns into an major score discrepancy right off the bat, probably 50% of COD players will bail out of the match.  I have pulled my try-hard panties up as high as they go and struggled to break even when teamed with random nose pickers and split-screeners against an semi-organized party.  As long as I have half a chance I will stick around.

       

      When you do have a full party of players that are based in the same geographical area, however, there is a high percentage chance that your group will pull host.  Depending on the rest of lobby members host ping, this can mean your party starts off with a connection advantage.  If I am battling the host advantage and a full party, chances are good I won't be hanging around.  If I can't compete on a semi-equal basis, I am not going to sit around and pad someone's stats.

      • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
        Dec 6, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        FixBlops2     Jan 22, 2013 10:13 AM (in response to Ungrateful_Dead)

        Yes, its like playing vs 6 Hosts at once, if you know what i mean.

      • CLureCO Novice 335 posts since
        Oct 25, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        CLureCO     Jan 22, 2013 10:22 AM (in response to Ungrateful_Dead)

        ^^^what he said. The game is supposed to be fun. What's fun about going 2 and 15 the first minute of the game, knowing there are advantage/disadvantages game side, and sticking around only to end up 6 and 30 it being no fault of yours, just the comp/smoothing, or whatever it's called now.

      • darkwitness Novice 345 posts since
        Dec 14, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        darkwitness     Jan 22, 2013 5:13 PM (in response to Ungrateful_Dead)

        Totally agree....

         

        Back in the day I never had a problem sticking it out even if it meant losing because I had a chance to study the other team etc...

         

        a lot of the time people are fast to backout, no so much because they are losing, but it's how they are losing.

         

        losing a fair gun fight is not as frustrating as losing to lag.  Nobody wants to stick around when you have to fight both.

        • Griefbot Apprentice 878 posts since
          Feb 20, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Griefbot     Jan 22, 2013 5:16 PM (in response to darkwitness)

          Yea as soon as I realize that I'm in for a lot of insta death and it takes 10 hitmarkers with gun that is supposed to kill in 5, I'm gone.  I've got no time for bad connections.

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