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2378 Views     16 Replies
2378 Views 15 Replies Latest reply: Jan 17, 2013 12:42 PM by skippinglobster RSS
Jl1223_X Newbie 37 posts since
Jun 15, 2012

The Grip - Placebo effect or actually does work?

Posted by Jl1223_X on Jan 17, 2013 3:17 AM

I hate the Grip. Is it worth it? I've seen videos - and tested myself - and it seems like, statistically (after the patch?) the Grip does nothing; It just creates the placebo effect (Psychology, by saying it makes something better while it doesn't, you THINK it does make it better.).

 

So is it worth it, right now? Does the Grip actually reduce recoil for guns like the M8A1, Type 25, PDW and MP7?

 

Or does it just make you think that way, in which case, the pick 10 point should be used on something else?

 

 

Please help.

2378 Views     
  • obzi Expert 1,045 posts since
    Nov 5, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    I've tried it on LMGs and think it's does very little if anything at all.  Waste of a slot.

  • maccabi Master 11,864 posts since
    May 31, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Jl1223_X wrote:

     

    I hate the Grip. Is it worth it? I've seen videos - and tested myself - and it seems like, statistically (after the patch?) the Grip does nothing; It just creates the placebo effect (Psychology, by saying it makes something better while it doesn't, you THINK it does make it better.).

     

    So is it worth it, right now? Does the Grip actually reduce recoil for guns like the M8A1, Type 25, PDW and MP7?

     

    Or does it just make you think that way, in which case, the pick 10 point should be used on something else?

     

     

    Please help.

    Vahn actually blew everyones timelines up the other day on twitter explaining the grip, it was a direct response to driftorz video.

     

    David Vonderhaar@DavidVonderhaar

    The Grip typically modifies the ADS Center Speed scale for view kick. Many don't understand the impact of View vs Gun impact on accuracy.

    Accuracy isn't a single measurement and therefore empirically it's difficult to understand. Especially in a YT video. +

    But, hey, lots of attachments available. Use one that works for you.

    Sorry. I meant to say players don't necessarily understand the differences between View vs Gun "kick" and it's impact on your Accuracy

    The Grip puts "points" into Accuracy in the meter, but Accuracy itself is not just gun kick or view kick, but *many* things

    Re-center speeds, kick reductions, and other attributes are more observable to the player doing the evaluation. +

    Or what he thinks "Accuracy" should mean for the Grip. Thus ends today's lesson. Sorry for blowing up your timeline.

    • DR65DR Novice 366 posts since
      Dec 9, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated

      Drift0r ran pretty exhaustive tests and included his whole four hour video on his findings. However, after Vahn's Tweet, he said he's going to go back and revisit the subject in another video.

       

      I'll be interested in seeing his results, because to all intents and purposes, his videos demonstrated that in this game, the grip did very little. However, in the interests of keeping an open mind, I'll wait and see what he finds next. His In Depth series is an excellent breakdown of all the kit in Black Ops 2.

  • theGreyHammer Newbie 24 posts since
    Dec 31, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    I did some tests with the MSMC and the PDW-57, and if I wasn't doing anything wrong, the Grip decreased vertical recoil and increased the side-to-side recoil. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Maybe.

  • McZOMBI Expert 671 posts since
    Nov 12, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    I find it useful on SMGs for controlling aim for mid to long range targets. It doesn't reduce recoil so much as help you stay on target in my experience. It's hard to explain but it's like it adds a few % to aim assist.

  • DaveW Novice 265 posts since
    Dec 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Personally i don't think it makes that much of a difference it certainly isnt noticable. I would have thought it would compliment an attachment like rapid fire but it doesn't at all. I ditched grip and rapid fire attachment after experimenting with same for a while. The best attachments are laser and silencer hands down!

  • LordPookums Novice 170 posts since
    Dec 14, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    Yes the grip works. I really don't understand where this placebo effect idea keeps cropping up in reference to the grip. I think its mostly because the grip isn't nearly as useful or powerful an attachment as it had been in past CoDs.

     

    There are some weapons where it does very little at all.

     

    I'll give you a basic synopsis of the various weapon types and styles and how it affects them(Ive done plenty of fire and bot tests to determine).

     

    Automatic assault rifles:

     

    - makes spray more center consistent on the kick(some weapons have wierd kick shapes. It gets rid of these shapes and instead makes it more of a circular spray).

     

    - reduces the overall spray diameter by around 15-25% (this is the kicker. And likely the reason players keep mentioning placebo. In past CoDs it seemed like grip reduce spray diameter by around 30-40%...it does very little in BLOPS 2, but it is noticeable. In short its really only beneficial for long range battles and the occasional midrange battle. It really wont help much in close quarters.)

     

    - Like on certain other Weapons, Some occasionally have a Maverick bullet (IE. a bullet random jumps out the side that isnt on target and doesnt hit anywhere close to the aimed location). It appears to get rid of these.

     

    Burst assualt rifles:

     

    - Reduces bullet variation significantly. (This is hard to notice because only the last bullet tends to deviate from the pack, if any of the bullets are off at all. If the bullets are not off, then grip won't really help you. If the last bullet is off, thats all the grip really seems to benefit, by making it match with the previous bullets.)

     

    SemiAuto AR:

     

    - Don't even bother. It might have some small small tiny benefit for quick triggering longshots, but its so little, for weapons that are already powerful and shoot like lasers, that its pointless to use.

     

    LMG:

     

    - Removes the maverick bullets

     

    - Reduces spray diameter by around 25%

     

    - Reduces Recoil Increase Over Time, by around 50% (with Automatic weapons, you will notice that some have a recoil that gets worse and worse and worse, the longer you hold it. With LMGs this can be noticeable. It appears to reduce the recoil increase overtime, allowing you to fire an entire clip without too many developing accuracy issues.)

     

    Unlike with ARs and SMGs...Im not sure if the grip prevents obscure bullet pathing on the recoil. Never focused enough to see.

     

    SMG:

     

    - Removes Maverick bullets

     

    - Reduces Recoil Increase OverTime (we will refer to this from here on as RIOT).

     

    - Removes obscure bullet pathing, and transforms weapons into circular spray.

     

    - Reduces bullet spray diameter by around 15%(This is the most extreme example. SMGs receive only a tiny benefit.)

     

    ----------------------

     

    By comparison Ive found that Stock tends to do these things:

     

    - Removes obscure bullet pathing

    - Reduces (not removes) maverick bullets

    - Reduces bullet spray by around 5-10% less than grip on respective weapons. Given how little Grip already reduces the spray, this is why it is sometimes hard to notice the difference between them. I have done enough tests to know that their is a difference however, and grip is slightly better at it.

     

    For the SMGS, Here is what Long Barrel seems to do:

     

    - Increases damage over distance ratios

    - Reduces bullet spray by around 7.5-15% less than grip. This makes it less effective then both grip and stock, but still effective.

    - Unlike the others it appears to effect the pattern of close to center shot variation on its spray. While it does not effect maverick bullets or bullet pathing, it does seem to make dead to center shots happen more often. In other words, it makes The standard deviation of the bullet spray make Dead center shots more likely, while simultaneously not reducing the bullet spray quite as much.

     

    Also, for those wondering about Suppressor:

     

    It does the same thing as long barrel with a few slight variations

     

    1 - Reduces damage over distance ratio

    2 - makes your shouts more silent and prevents map location when firing

    3 - Appears to reduce wall penetration ratios

    4 - It actually appears to increase accuracy and close to center shots (even though on the game image it shows the opposite) much like the long barrel. It seems to have around 75-80% of long barrels effectiveness in these regards.

    5- On rare occasions it causes significant Recoil jump (SVU-AS) or reduction (Skorpion, MSMC).

     

    ----------

     

    Finally here are some weapons the grip is effective with:

     

    - HAMR

    - QBB LSW

    - Skorpion

    - MSMC (Better combined with Rapid fire, but can give some improvement without rapid fire)

    - Rapid fire PDW

    - MP7 (if you hold MP7 for more than around 7-8 bullets it starts to follow a crazy bullet path. Grip seems to get rid of this unless you enable rapid fire. Combining another spray reducing attachment with grip will remove the reenabled rapid fire pathing if you use the Primary gunfighter wildcard. However your circle spray will make rapid fire long distance battles harder unless you burst fire).

    - Mtar

    - An-94

     

    Weapons that do not need a grip attachment:

     

    - M27 (Thing is a laser; I believe its even more accurate then sniper rifles)

    - FAL

    - SMR

    - Chicom

    - Swat burst and M481 burst. (While it can make the final bullet on each gun follow the exact line of the first bullets, they are only slightly deviated anyway. Only in the rarest of instances will this likely be beneficial.)

  • nicedrewishfela Master 8,331 posts since
    Sep 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Wasn't there just a thread on this yesterday?

     

    The grip does make a difference, no matter what these silly "shoot at the wall" tests say. It reduces sway in long range engagements.

     

    Had a class with my MTAR with silencer/Stock. Great up close but at any kind of range I was drifting off target and bucking around like crazy. Swapped out silencer for the grip and this stopped.

  • Pilsburybatboy17 Novice 139 posts since
    Dec 17, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    The guns in this game dont have much recoil anyway. Could it be that you are flinching when you get shot and that is what is causing you to think the grip doesnt work?

  • banned-again Expert 1,629 posts since
    Jul 26, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    the grip helps alot on the lmg's and a/r but i see it as a waste of time on smg's since i like to get up close when using them so recoil isnt much of a problem

  • skippinglobster Expert 1,304 posts since
    Aug 9, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Drift0r's video was very well done and it was enough to convince me not to run it. I don't think Vahn is wrong and I'm sure Drift0r some how missed grips effect. However many other Youtubers have also tested it and not been able to tell what it does, and in my opinion I think at the very least shows its effect to be negligible.

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