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4362 Views 47 Replies Latest reply: Jan 17, 2013 2:51 PM by LordPookums RSS
thebiindsniper Master 5,129 posts since
Jun 12, 2011

Matchmaking is not ping based.

Posted by thebiindsniper on Jan 16, 2013 7:11 PM

Think about it.  MW2 and MW3 barely even lagged because everytime you searched for a match, you were notified of the ping levels you were getting into.  <50, <65, etc.

 

In BO1 and BO2, there is no ping notification that appears on top of the screen, and the lag is attrocious.  In fact, even during the days of Black Ops 1, an east coast player from NJ, would get put into a lobby where someone from California is host.

 

Coicidence?  I think not.

 

~RUGGED SAVIOR

4362 Views     
  • iivrruummii Master 3,892 posts since
    Sep 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Well if someone from NJ was getting into a Cali game then someone didn't have their settings right.  Probably on fastest match rather than local.

  • TigerGenetics1 Novice 80 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    When I play I always get paired up with people in my region and when I am in a party with my brother (east coast and usually party leader) I am paired with people on the east coast. 

    • Foxhound-Pro GlobalModerator 3,085 posts since
      Jul 23, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated

      TigerGenetics1 wrote:

       

      When I play I always get paired up with people in my region and when I am in a party with my brother (east coast and usually party leader) I am paired with people on the east coast. 

      This is normally how it is for me. Though I do often get paired up with LA (Louisianna) and some OK peeps.

  • Foxhound-Pro GlobalModerator 3,085 posts since
    Jul 23, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    Yes it does.

     

    https://support.activision.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/How-does-matchmaking-work-in-P ublic-Match

     

    There are countless people who would argue that MW3 lagged. At the time of MW2 people would have too, but everyone has their rose tinted glasses on at this point.

     

    Bad matches are claimed to be happening. What's wrong? Don't know, but attempting to create reasons for what might be wrong is not really any sort of progression. It's simply stagnation. Don't help create the next wave of poorly rooted information.

      • TigerGenetics1 Novice 80 posts since
        Mar 24, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated

        I don't know much about networking, but just because you get into a lobby that is <50ms ping, I'm not sure it will stay at that because I think it can fluctuate throughout the match based on various factors.  Maybe someone can correct and clarify that but I don't think ping remains constant all the time, especially if you have a wireless connection. (not assuming you are using wireless just citing an example, even a wired connection can fluctuate)

      • trialstardragon Master 10,627 posts since
        May 26, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        Just because it does not show it does not mean it is not there. Just like even in Halo Reach the game still used true skill matchmaking even though they nolonger shown the numbers to people anymore. A thing does not have to be easily visibile for it to actually be present within the game.

         

        Plus even if the match started with a 50 ping lobby does not mean it stays at 50 ping only the entire match. It can be anywhere from 50 and up. There is no way for the devs to lock the ping in the lobby at only one set value and make it stay there all the time. If the hosts ping changes during teh match which it will since no ones ping stats at one value all the time, there is always some change to it every few moments, the game quality will change based upon this new ping the host now has.

         

        So even if a match started at 50, it could end up reaching as high as 100 or higher depending up network conditions for the host and everyone else within the lobby.

    • DITPiranha Calculating status... 38 posts since
      Nov 24, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated

      You people at Treyarch can argue whatever you want.  The fact of the matter is that the lag/hit detection/lag comp/whatever in this game is terrible and you won't admit it nor fix it.  We don't know the answers!  We didn't build the game!  Perhaps you all should provide us with some answers!  It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out the gameplay was better in MW2>BO>BO2.

       

      *Edit: I didn't play MW3.

    • maccabi Master 11,974 posts since
      May 31, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated

      thebiindsniper wrote:

       

      The game is ping based?  I'm waving the bullsh*t flag on that one.  Just llike how prestige token glitchers in MW3 no longer get a stat reset (old news).

       

      ~RUGGED SAVIOR

      Everything in an online game revolves around ping. It affects matchmaking, what you see on your screen , "lag comp" gun fights ect.....

       

      * what follows is more of a general reply to the thread not to you

       

      When dealing with this game or any cod game specifically for example everything boils down to ping,

      people talk about their "speed" alot which is actually bandwidth but anyways  , this game if you're not host typically uses around 0.04mb up or down , thats a tiny amount . Over the holiday period my net broke and i was stuck with a connection that had 160 kbps down and 220 kbps up, i could still play the game fine as long as no-one else used te net at the same time in the house. As bandwidth plays such a little part of the online experience it isnt even used in matchmaking,

       

      The game has 4 main parameters for matchmaking and yes skill is one, the other three are geoweight (which is basically location) and preffered ping and max allowed ping.

       

      The problem is alot of people got really hung on on this whole skill thing truth is skill has been a part of matchmaking in cod for years, and ultimately it doesnt make that much difference because of the ping parameters.

       

      what you have to remember with matchmaking is it WILL put you in the best session it can find at the time , This is something alot of people dont get (not saying thats the case here but) . Any matchmaking system is only as good as te available sessions it can find.

      You can have the ultimate perfect connection, the greatest matchmaking system ever designed but if theres not any decent sessions available at the time you search you arent going to placed in the best session for you. Matchmaking is also historic by that i mean the returned results are in the past when the search was done, by the time it tries to place you into a session it found theres a good chance that session spot has already been filled.

       

      Someone else mentioned on here that would prefer to see the pings of the search, to be honest and i can only make an assumption here, this feature was removed as it causes alot of confusion. When you search for a match you will notice sometimes it doesnt find a match and goes to the next step, In older games we saw this as the ping value changed.. ie search for 50ms searching for 75 ms ect.. What confused people was they assumed that this meant the search would now only return higher ping sessions, but actually the search would go 0-50 then 0-75 so it was still looking for the lowest ping session for you first.

       

      Matchmaking isnt perfect, it never will be , It will only be as good as the sessions it can find opne spots in, things that will affect this include, the playlist you are in .. the lower the player count the less likely you are to find a decent session, being in a party, matchmaking only uses the party leaders information so the rest of ther party are placed in a session that the game found thats the best for the leader this doesnt mean its going to always be gret for the rest of the party, especially if that party is made up of a group of people spread about geographically.

       

      Another big issue with matchmaking imo is the wording of the settings in game they dont make sense and confuse people,

       

      so in conclusion yes there are other settings in matchmaking BUT ultimately the most important is ping.

  • nicedrewishfela Master 8,558 posts since
    Sep 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    Honestly, not been an issue for me. I play with people from around the country, so we get varied hosts. A lot of times I get host, because I have consistent internet.

     

    I posted a while back about some lag issues I was having, but lately those issues seem to have cleared significantly. I do get into the occasional bad lobby here and there, but more often than not the host migrates and the issues clear up.

     

    It was bad for a week or two there, thinking they may have changed something with the latest fix and things are running well.

  • nuttin2say Expert 2,589 posts since
    May 24, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    I don't think it is strictly ping based. There's other things they can look at, as well, when it comes to connection quality. I think maccabi has explained this in the past.

     

    Just as a side note, I think it would be better if we all used a single term to describe a single event.

     

    Matchmaking?

     

    Lobby creation?

     

    What's what?

  • gallp13 Master 6,557 posts since
    May 28, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
  • Bielsalmighty Apprentice 730 posts since
    Dec 27, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    I seem to remember MM being explained as looking at ping, then looking at skill.

     

    In all honesty, I've found that if I get on and I cant shift my NAT from Moderate (which has happened a couple of times) the game plays atrociously. So long as my NAT shows Open, it plays just as well as any other CoD has for me. MW2, Blops 1 and MW3 ran well, and after the initial launch teething troubles, BO2 runs just fine.

     

    I wish I could lend out my connection when I'm not using it.

    • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
      Dec 6, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated

      Same here, i've also no problems with being Host.

      • Bielsalmighty Apprentice 730 posts since
        Dec 27, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated

        Ooh yeah, that too. In fact I actually notice no difference between hosting or not. In Blops 1 hosting deffo put me at an advantage...

        • FixBlops2 Expert 2,020 posts since
          Dec 6, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated

          When i am Host in BO2 then i get a slighty advantage sometimes, its barely notable but its there. I've noticed the Host advantage when a guy shoots me and i don't die instantly, i get a red screen and can run away. Thats only possible when i am Host.

      • biron_w Apprentice 790 posts since
        Aug 25, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        I have a number of friends who all suffer horribly if the game picks them as host. I played earlier with one of these friends. They were doing fine until the host left and they were picked as host. As soon as that happened they couldn't get a kill at all.

  • biron_w Apprentice 790 posts since
    Aug 25, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    The OP is slightly right.

    I personally think that how this game does match making is backwards. It should search for ping first and THEN broad range skill. Ping should always be the priority.

     

    Foxhound -  I don't remember MW2 with rose tinted glasses. I still play that game now and the connections/matchmaking/netcode/whatever is miles better than it is in this game.

    • snorubit Novice 380 posts since
      Dec 21, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated

      Likewise. Matchmaking in MW2 provides me FAR better connectivity- the irony being that there aren't nearly the pool of possible rooms to choose from as BO2 today.

       

      This as been discussed before but I have also noted that if I have one or two people that I simply can't kill, nine out of ten times if I check their gamer card they are either from Canada or Mexico (I went 0-8 in head to head gun battles against a guy who was break even numbers last night from Mexico).

       

      I feel anectdotally that MM factors in ping but other criteria are seemingly more heavily weighted than previous titles which increases the odds for a less than great connection for me.

      • DaveW Novice 265 posts since
        Dec 2, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        It would be interesting to find out how many times we kill and get killed by players from a different geographical location to us.

         

        Maybe 3ARC could provide some stats on that in game in the future. Surely it would be possible!

      • djtn Apprentice 552 posts since
        Sep 24, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        snorubit wrote:

         

        Likewise. Matchmaking in MW2 provides me FAR better connectivity- the irony being that there aren't nearly the pool of possible rooms to choose from as BO2 today.

         

        Wouldn't it be easier to find better quality matches if you only had to search through a couple of thousand? Searching through half a million, you’d have to limit the amount you searched in order to return them quickly.

         

        Hmm... Seems like in all the previous titles, the connections get better after a new title is released.

        • Ss78_ Apprentice 839 posts since
          Sep 21, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated

          Are you implying that xbox or activision servers can't handle the mm searches due to higher population?

          • djtn Apprentice 552 posts since
            Sep 24, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated

            I'm not sure how it works just using common sense. From my experience, the more people the lower quality matches. It works this way when choosing a game type too.

            • Ss78_ Apprentice 839 posts since
              Sep 21, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated

              Surely the mm searches themselves wouldn't put too much stress on the servers? The stat updates and all the bells and whistles like fb/playercards etc could though. Let's not forget that with more players you get more varied connections and in turn a more varied host quality.

              • djtn Apprentice 552 posts since
                Sep 24, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated

                I'm sure they farm and load ballance. Not sure about the db but their has to be some sort of replication to handle the load. The server's paltform has a lot to do with it also.

    • maccabi Master 11,974 posts since
      May 31, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated

      biron_w wrote:

       

      The OP is slightly right.

      I personally think that how this game does match making is backwards. It should search for ping first and THEN broad range skill. Ping should always be the priority.

       

       

      I've explained this before but anyways..

       

      the link to the matchmaking thing posted , basically goes down the order in which the parameters are set in matchmaking, people really shouldn't get hung up on order it doesnt matter searches uses ALL the parameters not one at a time

       

      Theres no difference searching if it was even done in order

       

      search for skill level between 1-3

      then

      ping between 0 -100

       

      will bring back everyone who matches that ping range AND skill level.

       

      ping between 0-100

      THEN

      skill between 1-3

       

      will bring back everyone who matches that ping range and skill level

      • xxxharveystjockxxx Novice 84 posts since
        Feb 8, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated

        What variables make up skill level?

        • maccabi Master 11,974 posts since
          May 31, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated

          xxxharveystjockxxx wrote:

           

          What variables make up skill level?

          That is the million dollar question and one i cant answer im afraid

      • djtn Apprentice 552 posts since
        Sep 24, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        Wouldn't they be searching a db with all the data in it then perform a ping test to each machine in the reults or vice versa?

         

        My point being the ping cannot be in the db unless they cache results per machine and that doesn't seem efficient.

        • Dyn4mics Calculating status... 262 posts since
          Dec 12, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated

          Do you mean cache a result based on everytime you look for a game, or cache a result of ping based on a previous time you've searched for a game?

      • LordPookums Novice 170 posts since
        Dec 14, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated

        That depends on one criteria though. That the skill level is a HARD cap, rather than a soft cap.

         

        Most game matchmaking searches would do this:

         

        ping 0 -100 hardcap

         

        ...

         

        if no criteria met...repeat once

         

        ...

         

        if no criteria met...expand to 0 - 150 hardcap

         

        ...

         

        if no criteria met...expand to 0 - 200 hardcap

         

        ...

         

        etc.

         

        ...

         

        Once X number of priority Players found Begin skill routine (lets say x is 100 players in this case.)

         

        ...

         

        Begin skill Matchmaking orginization SOFTCAP

         

        ...

         

        Compare routines

         

        ...

         

        Determine matches...determine hosts

         

        ...

         

        setup lobby(ies).

         

        ...

         

        end routine.

         

        ------------------------------------------------------

         

        Now I'm obviously not using the exact language or coding parameters for what is occuring. I am however speaking of the basic design a GOOD MATCHMAKING service completes.

         

        The skill measurement should NEVER be a HARDCAP...ALWAYS A SOFTCAP. Only the latency searches should be a HARDCAP.

         

        Ping should always be #1 priority.

         

        If you do skill HARDCAP before you do a latency cap, you end up with only good players, but the ping attributes can be all over the place. By having a latency hardcap and a skill softcap, it can discard skillbased search parameters if its already found X number of priority matches in the playerbase, but 1-2 really good or really bad players are in the mix. It will simply cut the losses and add the bad and good players to the bunch and work out team balancing once the countdown timer begins. This is superior to a skill hardcap at any point in the routine, which is foolish design.

  • Griefbot Apprentice 878 posts since
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    We can only go by what is officially released as there is no indication of ping ingame.  4 bars might be 15ms or might be 200.  Who knows.

  • adeadfox Novice 118 posts since
    Sep 9, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    What I liked about the MW3 matchmaking was you could tell the latency of games it was testing. So whenever it couldn't find a game of <50ms I would just backout and try again until it found one, hardly ever had issues with lag that way.

     

    Also from matchmaking article here: https://support.activision.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/How-does-matchmaking-work-in-P ublic-Match I found this part funny:

    One last variable to be aware of is DLC. DLC map packs divide matchmaking pools into groups of players who have DLC and players who don’t have DLC. The more map packs that are released, the more matchmaking pools there are. Nine months after the initial launch of the game, for example, the highest single population of players is that which owns all map packs.

     

    Buying the DLC means less lag! I had all the DLC for MW3 but always disabled it before joing matches because it resulted in finding matches faster and getting less laggy games.

    • maccabi Master 11,974 posts since
      May 31, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated

      adeadfox wrote:

       

      What I liked about the MW3 matchmaking was you could tell the latency of games it was testing. So whenever it couldn't find a game of <50ms I would just backout and try again until it found one, hardly ever had issues with lag that way.

       

      Also from matchmaking article here: https://support.activision.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/How-does-matchmaking-work-in-P ublic-Match I found this part funny:

      One last variable to be aware of is DLC. DLC map packs divide matchmaking pools into groups of players who have DLC and players who don’t have DLC. The more map packs that are released, the more matchmaking pools there are. Nine months after the initial launch of the game, for example, the highest single population of players is that which owns all map packs.

       

      Buying the DLC means less lag! I had all the DLC for MW3 but always disabled it before joing matches because it resulted in finding matches faster and getting less laggy games.

      snap

  • Pilsburybatboy17 Novice 139 posts since
    Dec 17, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    Acually the first BO by january there was a ping notifier

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