This title is a bit misleading, it suggests they're not supposed to win any fights
Personally, I feel like they still win much more gunfights than they ever did in BO or mw3. Whether thats the maps or the devs making them ultra strong is anyone's theory, though I'm leaning with the latter from their sheer fire rate and lack of major recoil.
Seriously, hasnt anyone else seen ARs be so rare lately? The majority of players used them in BO1, now I dont see them used more than any other class in any game.
to the OP you cant use kill cams to justify your issue.
First and foremost, I can assure you there is nothing wrong or unusual with the hit detection in Black Ops. The reason it is being brought into question with greater frequency than in previous COD titles is because we have new features that encourage and enable further scrutiny than ever before (namely, Theater).
I saw a YouTube video where a player loaded a Wager Match in Theater Mode slowed down time, and showed his bullet traveling straight through his opponent's chest in One in the Chamber. Yet his opponent did not die, and winds up getting the kill instead. As you know, One in the Chamber is a One-Shot-Kill game mode, so the natural conclusion is that there is a bug with hit detection. In reality, it's the visual replay that is misleading you.
The explanation lies within networking, and physics. The fact is, your Ping (latency between you and the Host) will affect what you think you see happening, and what actually happens in a match. Because Theater films are based on the Host's recordings of events, the visual disparity between what you see happening in the game from your perspective may differ from another player's (or more importantly, the Host's). This can result in occasions, like my example above, where misleading visual replays occur. Now, thanks to Theater, so many more people can go back, scrutinize, and upload their cases to YouTube and flood social media with questions. Whereas in past games, the debate stopped at shouting "GAH, stupid lag!" over the mic.
Killcam works a little differently, but the same principles apply. Some people notice that a guy was *way* outside of Knife range, but still got the knife kill. This leads to another perception that there is problem with Knife hit detection. This can be especially visible in Game Winning Killcams that end with a knife, often times it looks like the knife comes nowhere near the guy, but it still gets the kill. Because especially when a player is already on the outer-boundaries of knife range, that extra half-step of disparity can really stick out like a sore thumb.
The Bottom Line: You shouldn't use Killcam or Theater mode as justification for your kills / deaths. They are designed to be fun replay features for the game, not forensic science lab tools to make your case on YouTube and social media.
That quote from JD you pasted was in reply to people using the killcam as evidence of "lag compensation" (BO1 era). The OP however is just saying he's being killed by enemies using smg's a lot as can be seen in the killcam when he watches it, which is fine.
Anyway on topic - the nerf was not going to stop people using smg's as their still handy close range. Their ability to kill from distance is what's been nerfed, so naturally their still very useful in what is a CQC orientated COD.
SMG's are better in this game than in Black Ops 1, but are worse than in MW3.
The problem isn't SMG's or even Shotguns, it is that every maps hotspots are close quarters fighting areas. SMG's are beating an AR's from 15 to 30 feet??? THAT is what they are designed for.
Exactly! I pull out an AR on carrier almost everytime, and it always proves to be a good decision. This is about the only map that really caters to the AR category. That's not to say they're ineffective on other maps, it's just that most engagements happen in close quarters. yI expect SMG's and Shotty's to thrive in CQB and that's exactly how they perform. The nerf to reduce penetration may be needed (I have no opinion on this), but their performance in close quarters is expected IMO.
OIL agree with you I don't see any kind of nerfing done to the smg or shotgun no recoil at all on the smg looks like the ARs got the **** end of recoil and bullet damage as of now ARs suck major donkey balls welcome to sub ops 2 smh at this game is all I can do farcry3 keeps looking even better
i agree... every noob with a scorpion is running around hip firing for ALL of their kills. Yes the smg's are supposed to be dangerous up close but never having to even aim just takes no skill at all... and that is why everyone is seeing so many smg's. The map designs are also built to support the smgs. Treyarch did the right thing by increasing hip firing recoil. I mean lord forbid some of these idiots now have to get some actual skill and learn how to aim down their sites for kills now!
No gun in any class should be nerfed to the point of never winning gun fights. Even before the patch, countering SMGs could easily be accomplished with map knowledge and situational awareness. That guy spraying with the SMG doesn't fair so well when you engage them from a decent range with an AR. But the key there is to not get caught 6 feet away from the guy with the SMG. SMGs should destroy you up close if using anything other than a shotgun. No one likes to hear this, but it is the answer to your problems with SMGs, get better and adapt.
SMGs were pretty good pre-patch but I think it was more map design than OPness. Now all that's happened is the balance has shifted in favor of the ARs which are now killing consistently at a closer range than they should and make camping longer range with your target finder even better. Crappy.
If they nerfed anything not much has been seen. SMGs still rock from afar. Not some much the rapid fire ones however steady fire I can pretty much blow out any AR from 50feet. It is weird but SMGs are just nasty in this game. Thats fine though, they should be. Whats really got me laughing is the Handguns. I can run around and long shot quite a few people with pistols and get less hit markers with them than any other gun (except snipers.)
Im still seeing SMG win most 1 v1 gunfights, not only on my side but watching other players kill cams. Dont nerf them if your not going to nerf them correctly 3Arc
What did you expect? All SMG's to suck at close range?
It's not the god-damn SMG's! It's the maps. These maps are more suited to SMG's and shotguns.
If the devs produced more variety into map size like BO1, we could see a variety of weapons but as long as the community keeps whining about large maps, we're going to be getting Nuketown sized maps all the time which means more SMGs.
Well post patch I was on Standoff last night using a reflexed Swat from the window looking down the long sightline to the tank where a guy was hiding behind. I sent 2 bursts of my Swat a him, got hit markers only for him to easily kill me with his iron sighted MP7. This still happens all the time. SMGs still way OP.
The Swat is still terrible too. I had a final killcams where I sneaked up on someone aiming out of a window. From 3 feet away I aimed at his head and it still took 4 bullets to kill him - needed a second burst - to the head! WTF! The select fire recoil on the Swat is crazy now too - I should have levelled it before the patch! Shouldn't assault rifles be buffed not nerfed?!