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3287 Views 38 Replies Latest reply: Dec 12, 2012 5:59 AM by Kl4nt RSS
Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
Nov 28, 2012

Still tons of issues--forcing me to play a certain way

Posted by Kl4nt on Dec 8, 2012 9:50 PM

The new patch fixed some issues, plenty remain. Great, they nerfed the SMGs...they're still clearly the best class in the game. It's my opinion that ARs should be the best, afterall they are the most versatile. That's just my opinion, though. What I don't get is why they nerfed two of the best ARs, and made all of them less effective at range....was anyone compaining about them? Tons of threads complaining about SMGs being OP. They make their hipfire 10% less accurate and add moderate recoil to two of them...and then nerf the ARs. What? If anything, many of them need a buff to accuracy, range, or damage.

 

The maps and perks already cater to SMGs as it is. I feel like I'm being forced to use them. All of my best games are when I'm using a SMG, and that's when I'm just mindlessly running around with them. I'd appreciate the capability to do well with an AR but I feel like I'm not given it. They've significantly reduced any tactical advantage one can gain by gimping ghost and making footsteps inaudible. I particualy need such advantages because lag comp makes winning one-on-one gunfights more difficult that it should. Rarely do I get killed and think "that guy outplayed me", I typically think "oh, hipfired by a careless SMG user again". They are forcing players to play in ways they don't want to. I always appreciated being able to do well with a SMG, AR, or LMG on nearly any map in previous releases. This is no longer the case.

 

I'm still playing, hoping that I can adjust or some necessary changes can be made. I thorougly enjoy CoD, it's by far my favorite game/series, but this is the first one I've ever been seriously disappointed with. I've never considered buying a new game less then a month after the latest CoD release...but here I am.Here's to hoping that they can pull their heads out of their butts soon, or to that there's still enough players for me to get in a decent lobby in MW2. If commando lunges and OMA noob tubes are the price I have to pay for decent hit detection, maps, and awareness levels, then so be it.

3287 Views     
  • OccupyYozzie Newbie 10 posts since
    Dec 8, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    OccupyYozzie     Dec 8, 2012 10:21 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

    I agree that it's hard to use anything other than an SMG..... but that kind of reduces the camping, or atleast hypothetically. I would love to run around with an AN-94 but I simply feel at such a disadvantage that I don't even do it.

  • Sackett2012 Calculating status... 2 posts since
    Dec 9, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sackett2012     Dec 9, 2012 12:48 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

    I agree.    

     

    I just quit trying to use the other weapons and went with the SMG, which I do not enjoy, but this is the only way to play the game.

     

    The SMG's need nerfed down some more.

    One shot from sniper rifle in the butt will take you out. Come on.

    Pistols have taken me out from across the map.

     

    Can this game be fixed to even the playing field somewhat better to allow a choice of weapons?

  • radical_53 Apprentice 661 posts since
    Sep 4, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    radical_53     Dec 9, 2012 1:30 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

    I definitely agree with this. The last games allowed the player to choose his role and adapt everything to his playstyle.
    This time there's no real option given.


    I wouldn't say that any of these changes do much about camping though. I play objective-based modes almost exclusively and people still camp like they used to. Only our best countermeasures were taken away this time.

    • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
      Nov 28, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Kl4nt     Dec 9, 2012 9:35 AM (in response to radical_53)

      This may be a radical stance, but I don't even have a problem with camping, post-MW2 anyway. Since the original black ops there hasn't been a really good spot where a player could camp in a very advantageous spot and take control of large or critical sections of the map. Of course there have been spots with good sight lines and/or cover, but typically there have been two or more egress routes that had to be covered. There hasn't really been any spots that have given players an insurmountable advantage, which is good map design. MW2 had these spots, but it also had larger maps with more creative flanking routes, something this game lacks. Nearly every route in this game condenses to one of your typical three routes across the map, middle and either side. I long for maps like Quarry or Favela, with several different ways across the map, which allowed you to get behind the campers.

       

      Camping is an aspect of all Shooters in general, it's up to the devs to design the maps, tacticals, and weapons to limit its effectiveness, not to force players to run and gun. Ghost should help players to flank around behind campers without fear or being spotted on radar. If someone wants to camp, they will do so regardless. True camping is hardly an effective strategy anyway, stuns, flashes, and all the routes one must cover make it exceedingly difficult to do so.

       

      Hindering ghost is not a solution to the problem, I think any good player would agree. Those content with the way it is now are happy because it benefits their mindless play style. There's nothing wrong with running and gunning, or only casually playing/not being good at the game. There's nothing wrong with a strong rushing class. But when you limit the effectiveness or tactical gameplay and cater to the scrubs, you've done so etching wrong.

      • Freddy_Hardcore Newbie 78 posts since
        Nov 12, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Freddy_Hardcore     Dec 9, 2012 11:55 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH your so right dude.  When I saw the M8A1 I was so anxious to unlock that gun and select fire as well as the Swat AR gun.  I was lent down because the PDW, Mp7 and Scorpion are just the way of the game.  I miss the moments in Black Ops 1 where the AUG and Famas could beat someone using the MP5K or the AK-74u at longer ranges on maps like Array, Radiation, Firing range and Cracked. 

         

        Man do i miss that advantage on how effect AR's were on that game.  I miss hearing the range of someone making a fight because someone used an AK-47 silenced wering Ghost hahahaha  Its was a complaint but it was acceptable.  People over time NERFED AR's lol and it was for a reason but till AR's were the HOT weapon in that game. 

         

        Well I guess its time for a change in Black Ops 2 so Lets get those SMG's on the road and just Smile   even if it means your that closer to breaking the Disk or getting your money back

  • Axearon Newbie 31 posts since
    Nov 13, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Axearon     Dec 9, 2012 12:55 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

    While this is both true and untrue, yes the MG have had a issue hip firing I still find myself always killed while ADSing against weapons due to the recoil, AR's have issues themselves but so do SMGs can't aim due to recoil and the range on most is complete **** against a Assault riffle of any type at mid to long range, unless the one who's using it is an idiot and doesnt keep moblie  and just stands there and shoots they will win, running around with an assualt rifle isn't ass effective in COD or in really life in comparison to SMG's they're designed for fast killing at close range with fast moments, the same applies to ARs and Shottys you need keep moblie while in one on one, but an assault you are suppose to keep cover move up after the user is dead not run around expect to win a close range fire fight in a corridor. The reasons that a lot of modifications to SMGs have been done is due to Shotty's being powered up, The Reminton and KSG are ranging shot gun's good in both mid to short range combat meaning the SMGs need extra power to cope with it, The M1216 dose not lose in short range combat ever, The S12 is the same way, I have no issue with the KSG it's a fair shot gun but the other are far OPed but The Shotguns have such deadly power to take down Quickscopers and SVD users, the perks cater to tem and everybody, so to weaken SMGs weaken Shotguns to weaken Shotguns weaken Sniper Rifles.

    • Vomwaldsain Calculating status... 69 posts since
      Nov 19, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Vomwaldsain     Dec 9, 2012 2:05 PM (in response to Axearon)

      The nerfing that they did was horrible.  They didn't really weaken SMGs at all, they are still OP and they compounded the issue by nerfing some shotguns and ARs.  There was no reason to do that.  Shotgunning with the 870 takes skill because 1) you have to control the engagement (ensure that it is up close) which means that you have to run the boards in a certain way to avoid long engagements,  2) you cannot miss, a miss is a death.

       

      As opposed to SMGs which are able to kill at all but the longest engagements and you are able to spray and pray. It doesn't matter if you are off the mark, as you make your adjustment you can keep shooting and guarantee yourself a kill.

       

      Shotguns should rule in any room sized area, even with multiples.  Missing with the 870 is penalized by the long time to pump and get off your next round.  I think that everyone confuses the range of the KSG with the 870 (because they sound exactly the same) and thinks that the 870 has the ridiculous range, but it didn't (and really doesn't now).

       

      They ruined the 870 and the FAL, which used to be a good long distance AR for those of us that don't snipe.  It was my counter-sniper gun, now I simply cannot counter-snipe.  An activity that puts me at a disadvantage to begin with.  I have to have the drop on the sniper so that I can get off multiple rounds before he fires his first, the advantange is all his.  I have to use tactics to overcome his advantage.  That is all gone now.  Now I am left with flanking him and shooting him in the back with an shotgun or SMG.  Crappy run around the map, play!

      • Axearon Newbie 31 posts since
        Nov 13, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Axearon     Dec 9, 2012 4:46 PM (in response to Vomwaldsain)

        I try weapons before I put them down, the range on the 870 is RIDICULOUS epecially with long barrel, and you can spray and pray becasue it's spread fire, you can shoot next to them and kill no problem, missing is a penelty but it's not that bad, the KSG is a fair shotgun because you have to be dead on to kill you can't run around and shoot like crazy, miss and kill like the other shotguns, a SMG and shot gun are designed for the same CQB fighting but a SMG has longer range then all other Shotgun's and it has long range with attachments yes but not as long as a AR, you still control the Engment type you need with a sub but it's less of a need because it's a gun that can operate in mid range without attachment's like they were designed, In CQB it's ridicoulouse for a SMG versus a Shotgun because even headshots don't kill in one a Shot gun almost anywere ( above the shin) does making it impossible to kill in CQB so we equip attachments to give us a edge it's nessaciry to get around the fact we can't CQB anymore. The maps are reduced in this game ruining AR's chances if they were to release larger maps they could dominate. I agree the sniper's are seriously OPed even non 1 shot kill one beause you can't trigger spam with it like it's a pistol in CQB mid or long range the sniper is now deadly, causing shotgun's (1 shot kill) to be the only way to face a sniper, The snipers is where Trey has to start one that's fixed shotgun's we be reduced giving Smg's back CQB giving back long range to Ar's. But call of duty refuses to fix the QS and Sniper problem because then they would lose the thousands of 7 year olds that buy it to use cheep tatics in order to make themselves fell good about themselves. Go figure? Ps: as for the Fal can't say anything hav'nt given it a try yet.

  • slyaudio Apprentice 554 posts since
    Aug 29, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    slyaudio     Dec 9, 2012 5:05 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

    The problem with the guns is that the maps encourage rather aggressively close quarter combat. Unfortunately for those who like to use ARs that means having the short end of the stick. ARs SHOULD be less effective at CQC than a SMG should, thats the design and purpose of the guns.

    In the past the whoring of SMGs were confined 'mostly' to those who would find a nice corner or room to camp up in and was easily avoided by 'gasp' not going in that bloody area (this makes me angry so much as I feel its alot of the reason where CoD started going down hill).

    Now rather everyone is forced into the CQC and anyone with an AR is going to suffer in this regard.

     

    What upsets me the most is that I am currently typing this out because I just got kicked from a game, straight to the lobby and waiting out a probation for apparently quitting too many games. Strong game.

    • Axearon Newbie 31 posts since
      Nov 13, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Axearon     Dec 9, 2012 5:42 PM (in response to slyaudio)

      Probation is a major failure at this point trey is trying to accomplish a lot but is going about it all wrong, and yes the maps favor CQB for the most part, some maps more then others but there are a few maps that don't and there needs to be more, I like AR's but they just don't fire really really fast which is bad for an Assassin class like me, Supresour, Cold blooded, Ghost, and Quick movment's while ADSing which is great on a SMG but not as fast as MW3 but anyways so a AR is not good for me because i specailize in CQB and quick killing a AR dose'nt it's for mid to long range but due to the maps they force camping for the most part and even camping is now screwed so yeah but the SMG's are spammed due to shotguns which are spamed due to Sniper's, i sometime wonder who they have doing the making of this game because they can't seem to balance the guns in the 9 games they have released, weapons in MW3 were terrible like the Striker and Type 95 were extremly OPed and the MP7 they needed to reduce the rangge and or Accuracy but didn't bother.

  • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
    Nov 28, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Kl4nt     Dec 9, 2012 6:02 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

    Played all day, it's more apparent than ever that the patch was not enough. I've never put so much effort into going one kill per death. It's a constant uphill battle. Trying to flank is difficult, no footsteps means I have limited awareness when I'm near their spawn. The maps are so bland, three basic routes and MAYBE a fourth, or a branch off the route. I can sneak halfway around the map then get shot by someone headglitching around the debris that's scattered about everywhere; the choke points are horrible. That, or get hipfired by some scrub using the Scorpion evo. This game has been reduced to a run-and-gun-hipfire fest. At first I thought it had potential, but the changes they made in this patch suggest they want to keep it how it is.

     

    As far as snipers are concerned, I don't like them, I don't use them. It seems it's easier than ever to snipe in this game, with the semi auto snipers still being quite powerful. Quickscoping is BS, but it's not worth listening to the wannabe youtubers whine if they take it out. I rarely see quickscopers do well anyway, they just end my killstreak haha. I hate how snipers just ADS at one of the many choke points or headglitching spots and wait for someone to walk around the corner. This is more a concern with the maps, not snipers.

     

    The same goes for shotguns, I don't like them, but I rarely see shotgun users do all that well. I understand their purpose, so it's fair for them to be very good close range.

     

    SMGs are fine in close range, but they've overtaken ARs as the most versatile. They are too accurate at mid range, and they challenge and beat ARs at even mid to long range. Their high fire rate and accuracy are an OP combination. They are now like an AR with quickdraw, adjustable stock, and laser sigh built in.

     

    Do the devs even play this game? Did they play it at all before releasing it? I've never been more disappointed with a CoD release. I'll give it a few more days, and if I'm still this upset with the game, I'm finished buying Treyarch releases forever.

    • Axearon Newbie 31 posts since
      Nov 13, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Axearon     Dec 9, 2012 6:53 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

      Small issue is a SMG is designed for CQB and Mid range combat meaning of course their effective at mid range, and there faster but theyre damage is not as high as a AR's so that's where AR's have the advantage at mid range, dos'nt mean you can just stop and shoot, regardless to the weapon at mid to short range you must keep mobile, at long range things are actually pretty difficult for a SMG even burst firing to increase accuracy and range if all the AR user does is just sit on a balcony and shoot their going to die, you can't kill what you can't shoot, a AR is still far more powerful at LR than a SMG will ever be and in CQB so long as you know how to use it, it can be to. The versitality yes it has increased with SMG's, COD seems to try and make SMG's more like AR's every game, mostly becuase that's what the military does, try to build a better lighter weapon for GI unit's, instead of COD just copying what is avaible in the military why not come up with their own made up attachment which suits wepons of it's class?

      • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
        Nov 28, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Kl4nt     Dec 9, 2012 7:09 PM (in response to Axearon)

        I understand the realism argument, but CoD is really just an arcade shooter. Many aspects of it are unrealistic. Still, I agree that they should make guns and classes of guns similar to their real life counterpart.

        • Axearon Newbie 31 posts since
          Nov 13, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Axearon     Dec 9, 2012 9:28 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

          while that's true i still belive they should atleast come up with a few attachments of their own not turning the SMG into AR's.

        • Paramac55 Novice 154 posts since
          Aug 8, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Paramac55     Dec 9, 2012 9:46 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

          Kl4nt wrote:

           

          I understand the realism argument, but CoD is really just an arcade shooter. Many aspects of it are unrealistic. Still, I agree that they should make guns and classes of guns similar to their real life counterpart.

          If you want to make it more realistic, you would have to change the 'run n gunning ' style, because there is absolutel no resemblance with a true fire-fight! Everybody in a real fire-fight tries their best to do nothing other than 'head- glitching', camping and/or sniping!

          • Axearon Newbie 31 posts since
            Nov 13, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Axearon     Dec 10, 2012 9:31 AM (in response to Paramac55)

            well yes and no, a true fire fight, no matter where you fight is take cover don't get shoot, you only got one life in war, this game you don't. as for the head glitch, never ever had it? and depends on the playlist, in hardcore the movements are slow and nearly everyone snipes, but if you plsy chaos mosh, you will run into a sniper every once in a while, if you don't have the nuketown DLC try KC or Dom I don't get a lot of LR snipers?

  • Adam1234567893 Apprentice 576 posts since
    Dec 6, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Adam1234567893     Dec 10, 2012 2:31 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

    Lmao all I see here is a bunch of campers who think their kills should be handed to them also this game is FPS Arcade Military shooter so yea stop complaining about realism. Camping is the easiest most unskilled playing style in first person shooters. Campers don't need help and they sure as hell don't need to be catered to. Learn to adapt campers. The only thing I agree on is the buffing parts as for the nerfing those are just camper complaints.

    • X_MISSILE_X Novice 206 posts since
      Apr 29, 2012
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      X_MISSILE_X     Dec 10, 2012 3:30 AM (in response to Adam1234567893)

      You must be some God-form being. Clearly, you call out campers like ****s. Show us an example of your gameplays. Most people, excluding trolls, camp on a streak.

      • Adam1234567893 Apprentice 576 posts since
        Dec 6, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Adam1234567893     Dec 11, 2012 11:43 AM (in response to X_MISSILE_X)

        I have a decent K/D so I am not a God at this game and if you want I will give you my gamertag you can check me out in MW3 and Black Ops 2 and 1.

    • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
      Nov 28, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Kl4nt     Dec 10, 2012 6:12 AM (in response to Adam1234567893)

      Lmao all I see is someone who is on the good side of lag comp, and some scrub who is happy with the changes because it lets them recklessly run around and break even instead of getting their **** stomped like they would have in any previous CoD.

      • Adam1234567893 Apprentice 576 posts since
        Dec 6, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Adam1234567893     Dec 11, 2012 11:42 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

        Actually I am on the bad side of Lag Compensation most of the time why do you think I have posted alot of negative things. FYI I don't run around like you say I do I am a tactical game player so move and wait when needed unless I decide to run around with just a pistol then you got me I run around lol. Also I may have got stomped in previous CoDs but that was at the beginning pretty much near the release date but once I learned the game I dominated Hell I even have a game where I went 32-1 in MW3 without Assassin so there goes your logic want my gamertag? Cause you will be disappointed also I don't need Ghost to camp like you do and another thing the only reason why you were successful in MW3 is because that game catered to only campers hell it practically gave you your kills. One thing I am sure about is campers don't know how to adapt that's why they are constantly asking for help and begging to be catered to the only reason why this game is different is because they aren't catering to garbage campers for a change. If you were actually a good camper you wouldn't need the strongest perks or weapons I was able to camp with just Scavenger and Hardline didn't need a smg or ghost. Camping is the easiest most unskilled playing style in First Person Shooters and it doesn't need any help let alone need to be catered to.

        • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
          Nov 28, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Kl4nt     Dec 11, 2012 2:54 PM (in response to Adam1234567893)

          First I hope you realize I was just mimicking your first post, making assumptions and belittling the opposite point of view's skill.

           

          Nobody like the camper that sits in one spot, back to a corner ADS at a choke point or door. It's not often that you see this anyway, and while this play style may net someone a few kills, it's not effective. If someone really wants to do this, I say let them. But I can also see the justification for having someone show up on the radar after not moving for an "extended" period of time, like ten seconds or longer.

           

          I can adapt and in past CoD games I played with many styles. Nearly all my best games were ones in which I played aggressively, usually with an SMG. My favorite style is to flank and hit from the sides and behind with a silenced weapon, using my position to my greatest advantage. This sometimes requires staying in a spot for a little while, waiting for somebody to run by or something like that, not to mention pausing to reload and assess the situation.

           

          I play mostly domination, which in past CoD games defending flags and map control are critical aspects of winning. This requires defending sight lines and parts of the map. I consider this to be smart, tactical gameplay, not camping. I hate to see this style of play marginalized not only by a weak ghost, but by a combination of ultra strong SMGs, poor map design, questionable spawns, lack of footsteps, and lag compensation.

           

          I am not a camper, I like to be completely undetected. Once i shoot someone they know where i'm at. For this reason i always make an effort to never get consecutive kills from the same place. I like to constantly keep my enemy guessing--smart gameplay. I am often on the wrong side of lag compensation and I need every advantage I can just to get kills.

           

          I can adjust, I like playing with many styles. I just hate the direction they took that makes one mindless style much more effective than it should be. I think it's completely fair to have issues with this.

          • Adam1234567893 Apprentice 576 posts since
            Dec 6, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Adam1234567893     Dec 11, 2012 3:38 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

            I hear what you are saying but buffing a perk and nerfing guns isn't the solution they need bigger maps and a stable network with more spawns nerfing is a never ending cycle because you got the try hard campers constantly moving to the strongest gun when their gun gets nerfed and then everyone calls that overpowered. A slight 3 second off the map buff for Ghost is all that is needed to be stealthy. Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking stealthy players I actually wasn't I was only attacking the campers who ruined MW3 because of their constant complaining so that they can be catered to and having kills handed to them. They got the explosives nerfed to completely useless and they were able to get Infinity Ward to take out Lightweight and they a lot of other complaints but I am not going into that. Anyways sorry if it seemed like I was attacking players like you. So yea that's why it seemed like was attacking the opposite point of view but I was only attacking campers who constantly complain and feel like they should be catered to and constantly exploit everything. I like the new changes that's all I was saying in MW3 it really rare to hear constant gun fire through out the match because 90 percent of the population was sitting in a corner with Assassin and Sitrep Pro being scared. Ghost can use a very slight buff pretty much giving the player only 3 seconds to start moving again.

            • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
              Nov 28, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated
              Kl4nt     Dec 11, 2012 6:26 PM (in response to Adam1234567893)

              No worries buddy--no harm no foul.

               

              What they change to make other classes/playstyles is highly debatable, one of the reasons I started a thread. Franky I don't care what they do, as long as it helps. Nerfing SMGs, and then turning around and nerfing the ARs didn't help.

               

              90% of my complaints would be answered with better maps and less lag, and perhaps a slight buff to ghost. If they can't fix the lag, then they need to make the other changes more drastic.

               

              My biggest complaint/observation, other than lag, is that SMGs are basically rapid fire ARs with none of the penalties to movement speed, hipfire spread, raise time, ADS movement speed, etc. I think their combination of fire rate and accuracy is too good for your basic SMG class.

              • IndyOldGuy Novice 433 posts since
                May 30, 2012
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                IndyOldGuy     Dec 11, 2012 6:44 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

                Kl4nt wrote:

                 

                 

                 

                My biggest complaint/observation, other than lag, is that SMGs are basically rapid fire ARs with none of the penalties to movement speed, hipfire spread, raise time, ADS movement speed, etc. I think their combination of fire rate and accuracy is too good for your basic SMG class.

                Well said sir...

              • Adam1234567893 Apprentice 576 posts since
                Dec 6, 2012
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                Adam1234567893     Dec 11, 2012 7:15 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

                They should just give all the ARs buffs to make them actually be able to compete with the SMGs instead of nerfing anything. Nerfing is a never ending cycle so it would be better to buff everything that needs it instead. The Scar-H needs a HUGE damage buff because it uses the same exact bullet as the FAL so needs to be able to kill 2 to 3 hits at close and medium range.

                • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
                  Nov 28, 2012
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Kl4nt     Dec 12, 2012 5:59 AM (in response to Adam1234567893)

                  I remember back in the CoD 2 days when I used to rage that the M1 Garand (semi auto) would kill in two shots where the Kar98 (bolt action) would kill in one.  The two used very similar, very deadly rounds. Better yet, throughout the series guns that used the same rounds have had drastically different damages and ranges, most between and within the pistol and SMG classes.

                   

                  The in game stats are hardly based on real life damage or performance. If this were the case, certain weapons like the Vector or AA12 would be so good they would simply outclass everything else.  It's all about balance. If the SCAR and the FAL had the same damage, there would be almost no reason to use the FAL. You saw this in MW2, where a few guns were so much better than the others, meaning you we're left with a handfull of unused guns (the FJ200 or any SMG besides the UMP).

                   

                  Just because the in game stats are about balance doesn't mean they achieved it, but it's why some of the guns behave the way they do.

                   

                  Honestly, with SMGs as good as they are, I think the ARs need to be brought up close to the level of their MW2 with stoping power counterparts. We're talking 2-3 hit kills for your slower firing ARs, to 3-4 hit kills for your faster firing ARs. Of course mixing and matching based on recoil and most certainly balance would be encouraged. The point is that ARs would be capable at any range, and dominant at mid. It would make them the most versatile class, which is logically how it should be.

  • SRThunder Newbie 54 posts since
    Nov 14, 2012
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    SRThunder     Dec 10, 2012 10:01 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

    Want to talk about not being able to use a weapon. Just look at the shitty Executioner. That guns blows pure ass, but if I want Diamond pistols, I will be forced to do the impossible challenges with it.

  • IndyOldGuy Novice 433 posts since
    May 30, 2012
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    IndyOldGuy     Dec 10, 2012 11:19 AM (in response to Kl4nt)

    You know something is not quite right when players are able to run around with nothing but pistols and consistantly get kills.
    Pistols are supposed to be a last ditch, emergency back up weapon, but in this game, they are as good as alot of primaries, (except that shout gun one)
    alot has to do wtih map size.
    I am weary of these small maps, maybe if the maps were a little bigger, you could actually have time to see some of these speed merchants coming!!

    • SRThunder Newbie 54 posts since
      Nov 14, 2012
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      SRThunder     Dec 10, 2012 11:36 AM (in response to IndyOldGuy)

      IndyOldGuy wrote:

      Pistols are supposed to be a last ditch, emergency back up weapon,

      Then why do they have RIDICULOUS expectations for gold camo? Seriously, TEN bloodthirsty medals for a gold Executioner? Lets get real now and see some easier challenges for that.

      • IndyOldGuy Novice 433 posts since
        May 30, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        IndyOldGuy     Dec 10, 2012 7:50 PM (in response to SRThunder)

        SRThunder wrote:

         

        IndyOldGuy wrote:

        Pistols are supposed to be a last ditch, emergency back up weapon,

        Then why do they have RIDICULOUS expectations for gold camo? Seriously, TEN bloodthirsty medals for a gold Executioner? Lets get real now and see some easier challenges for that.

        Because just like the 1887 Shotgun in MW3, that had all the attachment challenges to level it up, when it infact,  had NO attachments!!
        It's a one size fits all and was not thought through before implementing.

    • Adam1234567893 Apprentice 576 posts since
      Dec 6, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Adam1234567893     Dec 11, 2012 11:46 AM (in response to IndyOldGuy)

      Actually if a soldier is good or special forces they can run around with just a pistol and once again this game is an arcade military shooter it doesn't have to be realistic. Also pistols are not just back up weapons like you said police use them as primaries all the time including Military Police.

      • IndyOldGuy Novice 433 posts since
        May 30, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        IndyOldGuy     Dec 11, 2012 5:14 PM (in response to Adam1234567893)

        Police in the LA bank robbery some years back found out just how usless pistols can be in a 'warzone', also Military police patrolling a base stateside is not a warzone, I dont even remeber the MP's carrying a firearm on the bases I was at...of couirse that was a different era...lol
        my main point being, pistols and knives should not win as much as they do against, smg's, Ar's and shottys

  • ellison25 Calculating status... 39 posts since
    Dec 6, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    ellison25     Dec 10, 2012 1:12 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

    I am a run and gunner.  I like many of the changes they made in the game, but I agree in some ways with you.  The game has forced others who are more tactical to be forced into a game style they do not like to play.  I have always liked being able to use AR's and SMG's, but I find myself staying with SMG's on this game.  Hopefully they will make larger maps that are more suitable for both SMG's and AR's instaed of just SMG's.  My friends and I were talking last night that we are already bored with the current maps. 

    • blarkw Novice 312 posts since
      Aug 17, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      blarkw     Dec 10, 2012 1:25 PM (in response to ellison25)

      Pistols and SMG's need gimped bad not nerfed but gimped. I love the PDW but it's still to east to take people out with it. The recoil, ummmm.....did they up it at all. Same goes for all SMG's. I pick up any and kick butt with it. They should be brought down a lot. They are forcing us to play a certian way rather then have an opinion on how we want to play.

      • ellison25 Newbie 39 posts since
        Dec 6, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        ellison25     Dec 10, 2012 1:40 PM (in response to blarkw)

        I agree.  I think there should be the ability for people to play their style of game.  Unfortunately, the community did not make the game and we have to adapt to the game, and not the game to us.  I know that sounds horrible, but as long as we buy COD, we tell them we like what they are doing as a whole and they continue to produce the same games for the most part.  I play to talk to my friends, so I just learn to adapt to the game.  For me the social aspect is primary, the game is secondary. 

        • Kl4nt Newbie 71 posts since
          Nov 28, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Kl4nt     Dec 10, 2012 4:54 PM (in response to ellison25)

          Yes ultimately the game should be fun, I think giving players some more freedom is a part of that an huge facet of having fun is doing well, of course.

           

          Pistols do take up a slot just like primary, so I understand their power in this game.

  • Rize_BHo Apprentice 871 posts since
    Nov 14, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Rize_BHo     Dec 11, 2012 10:03 PM (in response to Kl4nt)

    This Discussion Hits one of the Biggest Problems with this game.  This game Absoluetly gives 110% advantage to the Run and Gun and Spray players. A Great Game will have a Stong Balance to it.

    MW2- What was the balance to the OMA Noobtube? Blastshield

    Black Ops - Famas? rapid fire.

    MW3- SRP?? Nothing and it ruined the game!

    Now BOII - what is the balance to run and gun? answer- there isnt one. with the fact that all you need to do is have PDW with laser and 6 perks. you are now fast, can hipfire on a dime, dont get killed by explosives, cant be killed by someone hiding with ghost, can out shoot a sniper across the map with a smg or pistol, ect...   

    Now Ive always had a more tactical play style. I hate TDM! Its chaos and its stupid. I prefer SnD (becasue you used to have to play partically smart.) CTF you have your runners, your defenders, and your middle men. Dem and Dom too. and in this game it would be awesome because there is no huge huge advantage to just slaying rather than going for the objective. 

     

    Camping has only been a problem with me since like MW2 where you could stay on one side of the map and just cont. tube across map till you get a harrior and then CG then nuke.  Any other game a nade or stun and gun will kill a ghost in the corner. plain and simple. 

     

    Everyone needs to remember that this is a GAME.  For those of you who want to compare it to real military actions? Im pretty sure we stopped lining up and shotting at eachother a long time ago. That would be the closes way to relate Run n Gun in real life!!! Everyone and Everything should have a strenght and a weakness. For Example: SRP. It let you see Equiptment, Hear louder footsteps, and Cancels Ninja.  Im all for the Eq and Footstep part.  But to completely cancel ninja is stupid. it should have been more like... footsteps w/o SRP= 50, footsteps w/ SRP = 100, ninja footsteps w/o SRP 0, finally ninja footsteps w/ SRP 25. There is a balance, a reason to use both perks without having to crouch.

     

    The outcome of the game should be based on skill not just because the winning team ran around with smg while the other tried to use a different class. even tho the losing team communincated better and have a better FPS accuracy.

     

    Now im sure i missed something and Someone will hate everything i just said. (But i bet whom ever disagree with me use SMG 95% of the time and probably wouldnt tactically beat me 1v1. No thats not a challenge just a fact.)

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