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2901 Views 34 Replies Latest reply: Nov 24, 2012 8:35 PM by Angeloid RSS
ACII Novice 187 posts since
Dec 17, 2011

has Treyarch said one thing about the horrible lag and spawns yet?

Posted by ACII on Nov 24, 2012 2:43 PM

I haven't been able to find one statement from them about this game breaking issue.

 

Why is it, the more successful a company is, the less they care about quality of their product?  It's mind boggling to me that a company that has been doing this for 7+ years now and still puts out this kind of garbage. 

 

It's like they just do not care.  A little statement like "we are aware of lag issues and spawning problems and we are working towards it" would at least give me hope that it might improve.

 

It's unplayable right now, 9 out of 10 face to face battles I lose when it looks like on my screen I should have gotten the kill.  Every death is an insta death.  It's ridiculous and unplayable.  Completely terrible and they just piss on their fans. 

 

They should be ashamed of themeselves.  It's too frustrating to play right now and has been since day 2.  Day 1 was great, no lag. 

2901 Views     
  • zenlenx10 Newbie 50 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    zenlenx10     Nov 24, 2012 2:49 PM (in response to ACII)

    i tweeted 3arc and david on turkey day asking them to eat some humble pie .... no surprise i didnt get a response

  • zFayZz Newbie 43 posts since
    Nov 13, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    zFayZz     Nov 24, 2012 2:54 PM (in response to ACII)

    http://youtu.be/rDqatJPvOfk

     

    official treyarch response!!!

    • gallp13 Master 6,485 posts since
      May 28, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      gallp13     Nov 24, 2012 2:59 PM (in response to zFayZz)

      Tweets from Vahn in release weeks confirmed they are monitoring and will base any adjustments on the data not the emotion.

       

      History shows tweaks if any tend to came after the Xmas players join in and the game starts to settle down So best guess for any tweak of substance in Jan-ish cheers.

      • IllusionGames Novice 271 posts since
        Nov 22, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        IllusionGames     Nov 24, 2012 3:50 PM (in response to gallp13)

        So the 800,000 who were playing the first week and the 500,000 which are still playing ( for some strange reason ) is not enough data?  Wait, need to sell a few hundred thousand more copies, bring the online users back to 800,000 and then see if they can figure something out?

         

        I respect them for using data instead of 97% emotional, unaccepting, complaining, pointless posts on the forums in respect to the issues in the game we have all created in our imaginations, however 24 - 48 hours of game data is enough to based your conclusions on and make an adjustment.

        • gallp13 Master 6,485 posts since
          May 28, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          gallp13     Nov 24, 2012 4:26 PM (in response to IllusionGames)

          Your question as to the best size of the data set is the core of the matter. Vis, how much data is enough until all game modes and combinations of play cross a global player base is enough to start adjusting the game for the better.

           

          The basic process the DEV follow is;

           

          - collect data to identify tweak class and extent is required.

          - build the tweak and test tweaks in a test environment

          - adjust tweaks in test for unexpected side effects

          - some devs then tea tweaks in semi wild environment

          - adjusting again if required

          - if tweak type is suitable for hotfix only, vis pre xbl approved for release, then release.

          - if tweak type does not fit hotfix class, ie a patch, then get tweaks are packaged up and sent to Microsoft xbl for assessment

          - xbl need to determine that patch will not impact xbl, other xbl products and their millions of users and associated product devs.

          - xbl traditionally require 4-6 weeks to assess and if OK approve a patch for release.

          - if xbl says adjustments are required, then the devs adjust patch retest, repack and send to xbl....rinse and repeat you get it

          - once xbl say all OK then its released on xbl.

           

          Big and long winded process isn't it.

           

          Xmas sales bring a whole new group of people to CoD. A big influx can have the effect of changing multiplayer dynamics, think about server loads and effects on lag, match making, spawns and this in turn on DLC under final design approval as just one facet.

           

          It is prudent for devs with a weeks 2 Nov release and big at release on line player bases to wait the 6 weeks for the next influx of multi players users, let the play dynamics and server loads settle and then collect post Xmas influx data and opinions as key inputs into tweak decisions.

           

          Once this is done the tweak and 3arc/xbl approval and release cycles can take 4-8 weeks.

           

          To lay it out in summary form for say a garden variety patch with CoD;

           

          Release.               Wk2 Nov

          Collect data.         Wk3 Nov - wk4 Dec

          Xmas influx..        Wk4 Dec

          Collect data.         Wk4 Dec-wk2 jan

          DEV tweak.           Wk3 jan-wk4 jan

          3arc testing.         Wk4 Jan

          Xbl assessment     Wk1 Feb - wk4 Feb

          Release patch        Wk4 Feb

           

          If tweaks are simple and can be done by hotfix (no xbl approval and couple variable changes and no core code changes) then this could occur by week 2-3 Jan.

           

          Hope this makes sense and is helpful.

           

          Like all folks I would love tweaks to be released faster but there is little point making a tweak that makes the game worse.

           

          Cheers

          • Tick7 Apprentice 606 posts since
            Nov 6, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Tick7     Nov 24, 2012 5:20 PM (in response to gallp13)

            Your "garden variety patch" timetable crap is absolutely incorrect.

             

            Your entire post is glorious in it's attempt to have people think you know what you are talking about, but in truth, you are clueless. Please stop misleading people. By your account the first patch for this game should be in February - how do you explain 2 patches on this game already then?

             

  • llbeanzll Calculating status... 2 posts since
    Aug 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    llbeanzll     Nov 24, 2012 2:57 PM (in response to ACII)

    I agree, the lag in this game is so inconsistent!!! One good games, one bad game,  I love when I see on killcam that I fired no shots,and they 2 shot me. Why can't you fix this!!!  I have great internet and modem,  but it's worthless in this game for it's multiplayer connections.  This game has huge potential,  but your lag just plain ruins it.  Not to mention the head glitching you allow.  WHY IT'S YOUR GAME SO LAGGY???  why can't you fix it??!!?  Get help if you can't...  look at the smoothness of Mw2 mp,  and then play yours... 

    • ACII Novice 187 posts since
      Dec 17, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      ACII     Nov 24, 2012 3:03 PM (in response to llbeanzll)

      the sad thing is, I do want to like this game.  But I just can't enjoy playing with such a handicap. 

       

      There are a lot things I like about it, like no death streaks and score streaks is a good idea.  But I just can't enjoy it.  It's too frustrating.

       

      If history says anything about this company and activision, nothing will be done.  Once enough people quit, it sorts itself out.  So I guess I should put this on the shelf until march or so.

  • johnB0Y Newbie 12 posts since
    Nov 11, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    johnB0Y     Nov 24, 2012 3:24 PM (in response to ACII)

    What we need is Region Filters. This Lag is one of the worst things ever

  • BladesOut Newbie 64 posts since
    Feb 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    BladesOut     Nov 24, 2012 3:26 PM (in response to ACII)

    Try being a knifer and getting hit markers with combat axes, or your ballistic knife going right thru a prone guys back and then him shooting you.

    Or better yet... I combat axed a sniper yesterday in the back, he turns and one shots me...(I got no hit marker) then I run back to knife his camping arse... And the axe is stuck in his back...

     

    They really know what they are doing when they decide to make a game noob friendly...

    • IllusionGames Novice 271 posts since
      Nov 22, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      IllusionGames     Nov 24, 2012 3:42 PM (in response to BladesOut)

      None of this happens, really really. It is your internet, your modem, the city you live in, buffer bloat ( lol ) your skill, your talent, the way you play, your xbox, your HDMI cable, your tv, it is not the game really.

       

      Why would the service you connect to be responsable for anythng, I mean it looks like it worked when it was produced * so confused *

      • ACII Novice 187 posts since
        Dec 17, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        ACII     Nov 24, 2012 3:54 PM (in response to IllusionGames)
          IllusionGames      Nov 24, 2012 3:42 PM  (in response to BladesOut) 

         

             

         

        None of this happens, really really. It is your internet, your modem, the city you live in, buffer bloat ( lol ) your skill, your talent, the way you play, your xbox, your HDMI cable, your tv, it is not the game really.

         

        Why would the service you connect to be responsable for anythng, I mean it looks like it worked when it was produced * so confused *

         

         

        um, no.  No.  I don't lag in any other game.  This is the only one.

  • gominomi Expert 122 posts since
    Sep 3, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    gominomi     Nov 24, 2012 3:51 PM (in response to ACII)

    im in the same boat dude. i think ive had it with call of duty in general. sadly, i feel like MW3 is more bearable....and i hated that game

    • IllusionGames Novice 271 posts since
      Nov 22, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      IllusionGames     Nov 24, 2012 3:52 PM (in response to gominomi)

      lol

      • gominomi Expert 122 posts since
        Sep 3, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        gominomi     Nov 24, 2012 6:00 PM (in response to IllusionGames)

        i did well in mw3, but BLOPS 2 i've been struggling. 1 out of 3 games I will see ppl teleporting ... lol. awesome stuff....

    • gallp13 Master 6,485 posts since
      May 28, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      gallp13     Nov 24, 2012 5:07 PM (in response to gominomi)

      Frustrating stuff this lag but here's the issue, for all who lag there are many who don't lag.

       

      What can the devs do but collect the data, work out how to make most of the people happy most of the time. This mean some will be very unhappy and most will be delighted.

       

      Tell you what, I wouldn't be a DEV for quids.

  • dunnel009 Apprentice 812 posts since
    Sep 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    dunnel009     Nov 24, 2012 3:54 PM (in response to ACII)

    when Blops 1 came out first it was pretty good connection wise, then in january of its release they moved it to the elite servers to test the elite infrastruture, and it killed the game lagwise.. they spend until that November denying there was any issue then once the year waranty was up they admitted to the change of servers... Now BLops 2 is running on those same elite servers, the game cannot handle those servers or that amount of data.. by using P2P they are expecting 1 xbox to recieve and send ALL of the data that the game collects, again the xbox is not designed for that kinda data transfer..

    They are fully aware of that fact, they wont change it and they couldnt give a toss about the actual gamers..

     

    hope that helps

  • dunnel009 Apprentice 812 posts since
    Sep 2, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    dunnel009     Nov 24, 2012 3:54 PM (in response to ACII)

    when Blops 1 came out first it was pretty good connection wise, then in january of its release they moved it to the elite servers to test the elite infrastruture, and it killed the game lagwise.. they spend until that November denying there was any issue then once the year waranty was up they admitted to the change of servers... Now BLops 2 is running on those same elite servers, the game cannot handle those servers or that amount of data.. by using P2P they are expecting 1 xbox to recieve and send ALL of the data that the game collects, again the xbox is not designed for that kinda data transfer..

    They are fully aware of that fact, they wont change it and they couldnt give a toss about the actual gamers..

     

    hope that helps

  • Sixgears2 Newbie 37 posts since
    Nov 19, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sixgears2     Nov 24, 2012 4:03 PM (in response to ACII)

    You mean aside from the 26 Mb title update that included patch notes clearly stating that they had made improvements to both of those things?

     

    It's going to take more than one patch to perfect a game like this.  You should all be used to it anyway; it's happened in every single other CoD ever released.  The games never run particularly well for the first month or so, then IW or Treyarch sort it out and it runs like baby oil the rest of the year. 

     

    Patience really is a virtue.  You should work on yours. 

    • Manus_Dei Newbie 76 posts since
      Nov 15, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Manus_Dei     Nov 24, 2012 5:20 PM (in response to Sixgears2)

      Patience as virtue for a cnsumer died a generation ago, and rightfully so.

       

      My employers and customers wouldn't tolerate the patience supposedly required from this project in my industry, seems like patience is simply a luxury these developers and publishers happily exploit from the fans that have for some reason, one which I'll never understand, become emotionally invested in a franchise that's simply a business.

       

      It shouldn't take months to correct a product that's been around in e same form for years.

       

      The real reason it does is because consumers have become fans and those fans have become complacent with being offered unfinished titles at launch.

      • Sixgears2 Newbie 37 posts since
        Nov 19, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Sixgears2     Nov 24, 2012 6:41 PM (in response to Manus_Dei)

        The "in my industry" analogies are getting pretty tiresome.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: the games industry is not analogous to the car industry, or the hospitality industry, or the retail industry, or any other industry.  Those comparisons are just not reasonable.

         

        Blacks Ops 2 has a few issues, but it launched in a better state than 99.9% of all the other multiplayer titles I've ever played.  And it isn't the same product that's been around for years; Treyarch has made massive changes to the code running behind the game because the community asked them to by screaming bloody murder about the other CoD titles.  They're damned if they keep everything the same due to "lack of innovation," but they're also damned if they make any changes in an attempt to improve the experience.  Doesn't seem particularly fair, does it?

         

        Even beyond that, it is absolutely impossible to stress test a game to the same level that it will be tested once it is released for the general public.  CoD games are generally tested by professional players and regular testers extensively before they go gold and Blops 2 obviously passed both of those litmus tests.  Still, there are bound to be issues that start to show through when four million players begin dumping hundreds of hours into the game and it will take the devs some time to sort through their data and decide how best to deal with these issues.  It isn't simply a case of implementing a fix just because people scream loudly about it; they've got to examine the actual hard data they've collected so that they can do their best to avoid further damaging the code or creating new issues.

         

        The "real" reason that games aren't always completely flawless at release (and never will be) is that they are immensely complicated, dynamic pieces of software that simply can't be "passed" on inspection like an automobile or a lamp.  Think about the kinds of calculations that have to be made in impossibly short periods of time just to make a game like Blops 2 work.  Fifteen years ago we all thought this kind of complexity was completely unfeasible.  Now, we expect perfection.  It isn't going to happen.  You need to either learn to live with that or find yourself a new hobby.  Lamp collecting maybe?
        Edit: I have absolutely no idea why my last paragraph is a different color than my others or why it's in italics.  It makes me unhappy.
        • Manus_Dei Newbie 76 posts since
          Nov 15, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Manus_Dei     Nov 24, 2012 7:05 PM (in response to Sixgears2)

          TL:DR

           

          I assume it was something about it being hard to make a game, well Other games work great at launch, Halo 4 didn't need a fanboy to write in a novel for an excuse.

          • Sixgears2 Newbie 37 posts since
            Nov 19, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Sixgears2     Nov 24, 2012 8:05 PM (in response to Manus_Dei)

            Too lazy to read someone else's position for two minutes = not worth listening to.  You're incapable of processing even small amounts of basic information, yet Treyarch should be listening to your advice on how to improve their games in the future? 

             

            Yeah, that makes sense.

    • Angeloid Newbie 30 posts since
      Nov 16, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Angeloid     Nov 24, 2012 8:35 PM (in response to Sixgears2)

      I played mw2 on release day and it did not have these issues. blops1 had hit detection issues and host had advantage (didnt mind it played games like gears 1 and rainbowsix) but it wasnt unbearable. blops2 on the other hand really knows how to handicap me whether it's the monsterous amount of hit markers i get when shooting someone in the head when they head glitch, or snapping on target and shooting first but after 2 hit markers the game decides my bullets are blanks so i die. i can go on but it'd be the same song and dance we all know about

  • Hobeinator Newbie 48 posts since
    Nov 2, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Hobeinator     Nov 24, 2012 4:03 PM (in response to ACII)

    The reason for the inconsistency in latency is matchmaking.

     

    While before release vahn stated that matchmaking would be "latency/ping based exclusively" it turns out that's not the case.  They're using skill based matchmaking for public matches.  I can't be bothered to find the tweet but it came from vahn.  And it appears his tweet about ping based matchmaking has long been deleted.  That's probably as much of a statement as you're going to get in the near future.

     

    This system creates a number of issues, the biggest of which is latency problems.

    • biron_w Apprentice 787 posts since
      Aug 25, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      biron_w     Nov 24, 2012 5:31 PM (in response to Hobeinator)

      The skill based system is only for league play.

      Normal games are ping based.

       

      And people really need to give them chance to fix things. The game has only been out 2 weeks.

  • Tick7 Apprentice 606 posts since
    Nov 6, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Tick7     Nov 24, 2012 5:14 PM (in response to ACII)

    I'm calling bullsh*t on those of you who are claiming to be experts and pros at patch and tweak timetables.

     

    Are you all so narrow minded as to forget that we've already had 2 patches on the current build, including a patch last week that was solely based on fixes that were done on problems found in the game AFTER release? The patch went live 8 days after the game went live. Where do some of you get your information from? And to state it so matter-of-factly, is both laughable and kind of concerning...

     

    If the OP is looking for a "we are aware of " type of statement, go follow Vahn on twitter; he's given numerous reponses about both the lag and spawn systems, including one today that said that they are working on the spawn system currently.

     

    It's mind boggling to me that so many of you are completely out to lunch and impatient when it comes to this kind of stuff.

     

    If the game is so "unplayable" then stop playing it (LOL!) and wait until the core issues in your mind, are fixed.

     

    For what it's worth, the lag issues have been stabilized largely over the past few days. Not perfect, but a HUGE improvement over what they were last week. This is the case with most people. At this point, I think people complaining about lag are doing so almost as an excuse as to why they are so poor at this game.

    • Ss78_ Apprentice 839 posts since
      Sep 21, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Ss78_     Nov 24, 2012 5:27 PM (in response to Tick7)

      I did stop playing m8 but the core issues in my mind will never be fixed, how about yours? If the huge improvements are giving you such a good experience why are you here posting so much and not playing the game?

  • gallp13 Master 6,485 posts since
    May 28, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    gallp13     Nov 24, 2012 5:49 PM (in response to ACII)

    I'm wondering, how is it possible to develop a product;

     

    - for a user base the size of a Australia.

    - with about the same level of variation in expectations.

    - over network infrastructure, the condition of which is highly unpredictable and outside of your control.

     

    and then meet the needs of every single customer who purchases the product?


    It seems inevitable that there will be folks that are happy, some who are bitter and some who make do.

     

    Just a thought....

    • Manus_Dei Newbie 76 posts since
      Nov 15, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Manus_Dei     Nov 24, 2012 5:58 PM (in response to gallp13)

      Those seem like valid points, then I pop in a copy of Halo 4 and those valid points dissolve.

       

      There will always be aspects of a game which people won't like as well as minor hiccups, but in term of delivering a smooth online experience right out of the gate for a title with a massive amount of players heading online on day1 well other games pull it off...

    • Sixgears2 Newbie 37 posts since
      Nov 19, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sixgears2     Nov 24, 2012 7:41 PM (in response to gallp13)

      Don't try making sense here.  It isn't welcome.  Blops 2 should have simultaneously met every single player's individual expectations at the instant of release.

       

      Also, I've recently learned that talking to Manus is a lost cause.  He can only read three words at a time before spouting TL:DR or something about Halo 4.  Better to save your breath.

  • Violator Novice 176 posts since
    Nov 12, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Violator     Nov 24, 2012 6:07 PM (in response to ACII)

    I just got off the phone with Jason West.

    He said the lag comp code is L-M-N-O-P.

    Not La-Meno-Pee.

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