Skip navigation

FORUMS_

3292 Views     21 Replies
3292 Views 20 Replies Latest reply: Nov 18, 2012 5:37 AM by maccabi RSS
maccabi Master 11,829 posts since
May 31, 2011

Great Article with Vahn about balancing and player feedback.

Posted by maccabi on Nov 16, 2012 4:30 AM

The link to it is here..

 

http://www.destructoid.com/black-ops-ii-on-balancing-and-player-feedback-238508. phtml

 

It's def worth reading and should help people understand why sometimes things aren't buffed, nerfed or not op according to the devs

3292 Views     
  • Elite-Rebel-XX Novice 445 posts since
    Aug 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    Vahn is right, People should get off his back.

  • kastro187420 Master 5,920 posts since
    May 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    It'd be nice if they were willing to share that data with the players. I've held the belief for a long time that Secrecy for the sake of secrecy is a poor way to go. If there's not a legitimate reason for keeping something a secret, then put it out there if it's requested.

     

    I get that they don't want emotional responses to things to dictate their changes, but the problem comes when that's exactly what they do. Two prime examples:

     

    Ghost - Ghost was blown way out of proportion, largely by the Youtube and twitter community who simply couldn't handle the fact that someone didn't show up on the Radar as a free kill for them at all times. So they exaggerated the problem, and complained for nearly two years until Treyarch basically nerfed Ghost to the point of being useless. But they didn't just stop there. They made the Counter-UAV a mid-level unlock, meaning the ONLY way to counter the UAV is to stand around spinning in circles, hoping to find it and shoot it down without getting shot in the back because you lit up on the radar like a Christmas Tree.

     

    Quick-Scoping - In Black Ops, they found a workable fix that pretty much killed quick-scoping. Initial zoom sway that really didn't impact legitimate sniping. But once again, the Youtubers and Twitter people completely blew it out of proportion and exaggerated the claims. So what happened? Once again, Treyarch bowed to pressure and gave them back quick-scoping. Infinityward then followed suit and practically turned it into a feature in MW3.

     

    Just two examples where they allow emotion to dictate their changes, completely contradicting their earlier claims in that article. In the end, I hope they're willing to share that data beyond simply saying "our data says you're wrong, too bad.". I also hope they take a hard look at some of their "features" they included at Launch and decide whether or not they allowed Emotion to dictate those features, or a logical assessment.

    • phxs72 Master 3,646 posts since
      Feb 29, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated

      I think that the point of the article was in part an admission to the mistakes of how things were handled in the past and a promise that the changes in the future will be better because they will be based on data instead of emotion.  Obivously the current launch features would be based on more emotion than data because the data didn't exist in this newly revised structure until now.

  • avgjoe Newbie 8 posts since
    Sep 16, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    I dunno - it seems like they never addressed the root problems that the last few COD's have experienced.

     

    LOL and its funny that people are Trolling saying "Hey they are using Math". Um.. all of programming is all based on forms of math.

     

    I just want them to A) Admit there are Network issues and B) Say that they can either not fix them and we will have to live with it. or C) FIX THE LAG

  • otisman666 Master 9,057 posts since
    Aug 3, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated

    My question is the integrity of the data and how other internet/network issue may come into play with the data. 

     

    "What are you talking about Otis?"

     

    Good question.  Is there a possibility that when playing a game with lag/desyncing/host comp (call it what you want) and bullets don't register or a certain enemy takes a lot more hit markers to put down then one of his other teammmates, what happens to those bullets?  Do they get recorded as misses?  Do they get recorded at all?   Each weapon will react differently under the laggy situations then their counter parts.  Things like ROF or spread or range will effect how well each weapon are impacted by lag.  I think it is these differences that will ultimately "spoil the data".

     

    I'm sure if this game was played on the LAN networks that it was tested on, then the data would be perfect, but I suspect the real data will not be so good.

     

    I'm hopeful though, Vahn is man of his word and truly cares about his final product.

      • otisman666 Master 9,057 posts since
        Aug 3, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        maccabi wrote:

         

        The way the system works (hitscan ) is your character model constantly fires an invisable beam from its head (hence the reason for head glitching when that beam passed through an object it records a hit .

        As such the data that can be collected is timestamps of when a palyer makes an action (hits fire fir example)

         

        Your techno babble hurts my head Macc.  But let's go with it (I have the asprin sitting here ready to use after typing this).  So, can't the connection issues that some of the community face impact the accuracy of what is timestamped on the hitscan?

        • RexBC Newbie 17 posts since
          Oct 29, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated

          [REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

          • otisman666 Master 9,057 posts since
            Aug 3, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated

            maccabi wrote:

            no, as everyones game is slightly different, to allow for variations in ping.

            The connection issues people are facing atm is purely down to a glitch for some people in the matchmaking nothing more nothing less really , if matchmaking doesnt work correctly for a player everything else is a SYMPTON of that.

             

            Basically once treyarch have looked at the data they collect over a few days they can dial in settings that work better for players.

             

            Well that's my hopes with the connections, but what about the gun data?  If the connections are a little wonky won't that mess with the hitscan data they are trying to accumulate? (runs for more asprin).

  • mr_happy102 Apprentice 250 posts since
    Apr 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    The guns are balanced, the lmgs kick ass, so does every other weapon. i must say i prefer'd it in black ops but their not gonna change it for me so im gonna get over it. i only have 2 problems with it,
    firstly, the assault shield is awesome love what u did but sometimes knife kills straight thru it, which is depressing.
    secondly: i'm gonna be an ass and say quickscoping, i loved it in black ops, the snipers are realy good if u aim, but getting quickscoped across the map is just rediculous. this is my opinion anyway

    • Elite-Rebel-XX Novice 445 posts since
      Aug 18, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated

      At least they removed Aim assist when QSing.....

      • Mr82 Newbie 7 posts since
        Nov 15, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated

        I would like to see the overall stats for weapon usage- seems to me like 10% of players are using AR's whilst the rest are using SMG's.

         

        The SMG's overall seem to powerful and all games im in its just a spray fest, it may however be due to the maps being a little smaller and having tighter ares to fight in.

        • mr_happy102 Apprentice 250 posts since
          Apr 30, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated

          If i may make a suggestion, as many of you are sick of the all powerfull smgs. try hardcore for the moment anyway, i was sceptical at first, but the fact they can be rejected so easily stops the rushes and wotnot. not to mention people are actuely tactical and people use guns that are interesting as all guns are deadly on hardcore even the shield

  • zFayZz Newbie 43 posts since
    Nov 13, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated

    vahn is an idiot who doesnt even know what he is doing.. if he did then the multiplayer wouldn't be such a mess. i will hint that idiot a few points that need working on and lets see if the illiterate idiot can understand us because its being constanly said in every thread that mentions cod.

     

    1. Lag Compensation - Every player with a good connection loses gun fighs.

     

    2. Spawns - retardation and smoking cr*ck is a bad combination when developing.

     

    3. Maps - small and bad layout make them bigger like cod4. stop making maps smaller than your pen1s.. it wont make you feel better

     

    500 mill in 24 hours and you have a bunch of idiots developing cod lol

      • djangoblack Apprentice 676 posts since
        Sep 16, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated

        maccabi wrote:

         

        zFayZz wrote:

         

        vahn is an idiot who doesnt even know what he is doing.. if he did then the multiplayer wouldn't be such a mess. i will hint that idiot a few points that need working on and lets see if the illiterate idiot can understand us because its being constanly said in every thread that mentions cod.

         

        1. Lag Compensation - Every player with a good connection loses gun fighs.

         

        2. Spawns - retardation and smoking cr*ck is a bad combination when developing.

         

        3. Maps - small and bad layout make them bigger like cod4. stop making maps smaller than your pen1s.. it wont make you feel better

         

        500 mill in 24 hours and you have a bunch of idiots developing cod lol

        Protip insulting someone because your have an opinion is never a good idea

         

        every player ? hmm i dont so what is that every player but me?

         

        Nothing wrong with spawns they work exactly how vahn explained they would, only time you get dodgy spawns is when both teams are spread all over the maps

         

        Maps are fine nice mixture of sizes and play styles covered.

         

         

        Basically sparky your post is an opinion thats it.

         

        I disagree with you. This game is a completely mess and it seems that it was developed by child minded adults with no brain & sense. The spawns are messed up; you kill somebody he spawns in your back or the whole team. I told Vahn 2 years ago, that they should develop a real time spawn engine for BO that it checks, that you spawn in safety and checks the opponents path not to be overrun by a run & gunner. He said that they have something similar, but in reality hadn't. Also the squad spawning is a huge problem, having Hell Storm on, you spawn and die instantly with your team mate. Getting multikills in this way is cheap.

         

        The maps are worse when we start to compare the from COD2 to now on. The maps have no flow, too many covering obstacles/tons/bins in the way. Very good camping spots to take people out. For example the wall with the boxes next to the fountain on Slum. If you control these you'll win the game. Raven and Neversoft did a horrible job. There are many annoying things and faults with the game that won't write down because I could write a book about it and it would be a million seller.

Bookmarked By (0)