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  • mdub Expert 1,764 posts since
    Sep 19, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    mdub     Sep 4, 2012 10:35 PM (in response to Vahn)

    Please take this as constructive criticism Vahn.

     

    Awareness should absolutely work well on non DS users. I am not disputing that.

     

    From what info I have seen, you want people moving... right? Why is it that you are giving people a reason to not move then?

     

    You said it yourself... you need a "quiet" game mode, like SND, to gain any super advantage out of Awareness. Why do you want to put people, that are moving, at a disadvantage? Why do you want to reward those that are sitting in a corner?

     

    Im sorry to beat a dead horse but all the proof one needs is to look at what happened to MW3. SND became camp and listen. Sure you can crouch walk around the entire map, but is that good for the overall game mode?

     

    You changed Ghost to reward players that move, not sit in a corner. Awareness will, just like MW3, reward players for sitting in a corner.

     

     

     

    Vahn wrote:

     

    Since nobody has heard the game on this thread, it can be difficult to explain.

     

    In general, footsteps and movement sounds are not as loud as they are in Black Ops overall. Footsteps can actually be difficult to hear even with headsets on if anything else is going on in the map (gun fire, Scorestreaks, whatever.).

     

    I'm not an expert "sound whore" but I need Awarness and a "quiet" mode like Search in order to get any super advantage out of the perk.

     

    Your character always makes SOME sound when he moves, but if you are crouch walking it's really a small amount and not heard from very far away.

  • iivrruummii Master 3,892 posts since
    Sep 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    iivrruummii     Sep 5, 2012 9:45 AM (in response to Jinx484)

    Dead Silence should reduce footsteps and other sounds by 10 clicks, so -10.

    Awareness should amplify footsteps and other sounds by 5 clicks, +5.

    If you are not moving or crouch walking then you are at 0, and when you are walking you are at 2 and when you are running you are at +5, and when you fall you are at +7.  0 is completely silent and negative numbers are represented as a 0. 10 being the loudest possible.

     

    Example 1-You have one person with Dead Slience and Awareness slowly moving(crouch walking) versus an enemy player running around without any Perk 3 slot perks.  The person with Dead Silence gets -10 clicks added to his crouch walking which is 0-10=-0 which becomes 0 with the rules above.  The enemy running gets 5 clicks added because he is running and another 5 because of the other one having Awareness which is 5+5=10.

     

    That is probably to best way to balance everything out.  Now someone else try.

     

    EDITED.

  • Dead_One Novice 130 posts since
    Jul 5, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dead_One     Sep 4, 2012 10:13 PM (in response to iivrruummii)

    Dead Silence should completely silence footstep sounds, except when falling from height, "the knee crunch". I do not use a headset (if I buy one I wont be able to afford Blops 2) and I am against soundwhoring in general anyway since it is a HUGE advantage over other players, most of which are not even aware of it.

     

    Usually I have to give up perk 3 just to protect myself from the soundwhores, if it only dampens footsteps in Blops 2 then I wont even bother using it.

     

    Awareness should not work on dead silence users, and silence teammates footsteps.

     

    However Awareness could give a different kind of (small) advantage vs DS users, example: recon lasts for 5 seconds vs DS users instead of 4. Just throwning that out there. The reason for this idea is because most DS users use a headset, so they kind of have Dead Silence AND awareness. Note since I do not use a headset im not exactly sure how huge the advantage is, but judging by sitrep pro its disgusting in my opinion.

     

    Vahn it is an honour. Also I demand Dead Ops Arcade 2! And thanks for allowing 2 attachments on secondaries, cant wait to go FMJ & ext mags on me pistol. Shame you took out machine pistols though, they only needed balancing, not removing completely...

    (example of a balanced machine pistol- the TMP in MW2, very small clip and very slow reload and very small amount of spare ammo, the trade off? a secondary weapon that you can use at range). Also special request for the visual effects of FMJ from mw2/3 in blops 2. Was very upset when it wasn't in blops1. It had many purposes.

  • rankismet Master 11,013 posts since
    May 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    rankismet     Sep 4, 2012 10:14 PM (in response to Vahn)

    Vahn wrote:

     

    Since nobody has heard the game on this thread, it can be difficult to explain.

     

    In general, footsteps and movement sounds are not as loud as they are in Black Ops overall. Footsteps can actually be difficult to hear even with headsets on if anything else is going on in the map (gun fire, Scorestreaks, whatever.).

     

    I'm not an expert "sound whore" but I need Awarness and a "quiet" mode like Search in order to get any super advantage out of the perk.

     

    Your character always makes SOME sound when he moves, but if you are crouch walking it's really a small amount and not heard from very far away.

     

    Actually... I think you've done a fairly good job of balacing it...

     

    ... but...

     

    ... I'm not a sound whore... although I do have Bose surround sound.

     

    You have at least three sight cues to location:

     

    1. Trailers -- bullet and grenade. These give you range.
    2. Shadows -- all movement, people and point 1. These give you mid to close.\
    3. Kill feed -- all deaths. This means pay attention and talk.

     

    If you really think sound makes all the difference...

     

     

     

     

     

     

    ... you are in for a rough time.

  • Dead_One Novice 130 posts since
    Jul 5, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dead_One     Sep 4, 2012 10:44 PM (in response to rankismet)

    Sound does make all the difference, I got a easy moab in MW3 the first time I ever used sitrep pro...I was using an AA12 with NO attachments or proficiencies. I still have it in my fileshare, send me a friend request on XBL. GT: "apdenton1" and you can see it. MOABS were a great challenge for me in mw3, especially since I do not soundwhore and rarely camp, I Have 53 moabs in total I think (no challenges/stats proper to track how many), but the one where I used sitrep it was just easy mode, I knew there was an enemy coming EVERY time. It was disgusting, if I wanted that kind of gameplay I would play gears of war (use 3rd person camera to see around corners without moving from safety of cover and exposing body/giving away position).

     

    Completely Silent DS for the win. If it is not like that then it will turn into how most players play MW3, sitrep pro fest. I did have to use it a few times since after the patch only sitrep pro itself countered other sitrep users and general soundwhores, and dead silence itself became useless, except when gotten by specialist bonus.

     

    THIS is how I play Call Of Duty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qccZglb9QA4&feature=channel&list=UL

     

    EDIT: Whoa sorry for the trippy effects. Think my editor is on crack sometimes.

  • mmartin Expert 1,635 posts since
    May 24, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    mmartin     Sep 5, 2012 10:05 AM (in response to Vahn)

    I personally like this and feel it's a good compromise. My fear was that Awareness would cancel out Dead Silence, which is ridiculous. You could essentially have a situation in which everyone is using Dead Silence & Awareness with the Greed card and everyone may as well be using nothing in their 3rd Tier. I personally also benefit from using Dead Silence simply due to the fact it drowns out my footsteps, which allows me to better hear what's going on around me.

     

    Ultimately, based on Vahn's second post in this thread, "soundwhores" may once again be disappointed as they were in Black Ops with the sound mixing. We're all hoping for the MW2 Sitrep Pro elephant footsteps, which will likely never happen again.

     

    As Vahn has stated, there shouldn't be anything that's black & white and I like that philosophy. Not everything needs a counter. Game balance, Equipment balance, Perk balance, etc, is not always about having a counter, but giving other things value. For example, Marathon or Extreme Conditioning. There's no counter for these, but they're made valuable by other desirable 3rd Teir Perks. If you're playing CTF, for example, and everyone is running Marthon Pro, what adavantage do you have? That's why, despite the hatred, Second Chance in Black Ops, made things like Marathon and Tac Mask Pro valuable.

  • MrMill95 Newbie 55 posts since
    Oct 27, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    MrMill95     Sep 5, 2012 3:14 PM (in response to Vahn)

    I think this seems fair:

    Non Awareness players hear non DS users at 100% volume

    Non Awareness players hear DS users at 0% volume

    Awareness players hear non DS users at 200% volume

    Awareness players hear DS users at 50% volume

     

    But how would people feel about:

    Dead silence - Makes you sound dead silent(!) to ALL enemies

    Awareness - Makes you and your team sound silent to yourself

  • rankismet Master 11,013 posts since
    May 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    rankismet     Sep 5, 2012 10:04 PM (in response to MrMill95)

    MrMill95 wrote:

     

    But how would people feel about:

    Awareness - Makes you and your team sound silent to yourself

     

    That would be very, very game changing...

     

     

    ... and interesting.

  • arlothion Master 301 posts since
    Jun 1, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    arlothion     Sep 5, 2012 11:25 PM (in response to Vahn)

    Is it possible to let awareness users only hear dead silence users when there are sprinting, then if  a DS user walks the awareness user can no longer hear him. then the DS doesn't have to couch walk the map and still has good enough movement speed.

     

    My only problem is that you can have a guy with DS currently sprint right past you without making a single noise, IMO there should still some tactical play than just sprinting around the map because you can't be heard

  • condalagia Calculating status... 1 posts since
    Sep 3, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    condalagia     Sep 6, 2012 7:03 AM (in response to Vahn)

    Hi Vahn

     

    My opinion: Dead Silence should be no noise at all like Ninja Pro in Black Ops 1. To create class: Dead Silence and Awarness shouldn't be possible to combine. If you do, than somebody get right at beginning of match spezialist (MW3) without earning points. In most playlist (mode) it would be horrible to play against some players/lobbies.

     

    There are other combinations of perks, which would be good considered, to do a restriction.

     

    regards

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