I said one single shell, that is 2/6 with a Akimbo Spread. It sitll killed a lot. I didn't play with SoH so making every shot count was important.

Rangers also had much less range than the KSG. And Bucks, the whole point of having it at 35 is so Range is the Proficiency of choice. With range it would have a longer range than every shotgun, with an extra pellet  (on a normal scenario, which means no specialist bonus) and a 604u of 4hk range

Perhaps on certain maps, like Lockdown/Hardhat, which possess long corridors, longer range would have much more of an effect, and for certain playstyles, it would be the weapon of choice. If you wanted to use it more suited for close ranges, the Spas-12 would be a more reliable choice.

You can't expect every gun to behave the same way. Using the UMP45 against the MP5 at close range is suicide, but it isn't at longer ranges. In the same way, every shotgun (manual-actions ones at least) shouldn't perform the same. They should have unique traits and niches.

A long range KSG with 9 pellets would certainly triumph over damage Models and Spas-12 at long ranges. The chance of hitting one extra pellet at that distance alone would be good enough to help in most situations. I mean, whatever is your chance of hitting something, the KSG has 12.5% more chance. At long range, where one pellet can make all the difference, that 12.5% is very, very important.

Do you realise you still have to be aiming in the same spot as with steady aim to get any effectiveness from an ads buff?  Its not like your aim can be worse.  It still takes very good accuracy to take advantage of a 4 degree spread at range.

 

Wrong, A 3.25 to 4 spread adsed, means you should ads every time, knowing how much easier it’s to just ads, you have a sight & sticky aim assisting you. It’s not hard to ads and get on target and you only want a 4 spread when in full 0.8 movement. It’s hard to move & get on target center mass with the steady aim spread atm, it’s much easier while aimed down sight.

Adsing with the proposed spas with damage would have about the same reliable one shot kill range as the naked 1887 with steady aim.  They are literally only like .67 meters different.

Well the model has what 20 damage per pellet naked, it gets the odd long shot constantly, so that 067 especially with the damage multipliers would happen constantly. Even if that is true, it still doesn’t change the fact that adsing while making them more powerful is never happening. As it will make them easier all ranges, also the spas and ksg have higher max damage ranges, so they would benefit from it a lot then.

Its almost as easy to hipfire in cqc as it is to ads.  And with 100% mobility while hipfiring its also more effective because you can fire and strafe effectively.

Wrong, it’s not easy at all to hip fire cqb with the small steady aim spread on the ksg and spas constantly, that actually takes great aim unlike adsing. That’s hard for a reason as these guns have very high damage then (guaranteed kills). That’s why a 5 spread works fine for guns with very high damage and ohk ability cqb, you know where the guns should mainly excel. Nothing wrong with needing great aim to get good potential on range and excellent accuracy on high damage guns.

There is no reason to ads with shotguns.  Its already easy to hipfire in cqc and you can strafe at full speed while doing it and steady aim is more effective at range.

 

Yes, there is. Stop lying to yourself to get all these two massive buffs that would fundamentally change how shotties work. They simply won’t give you a free perk, a perk that now needs great aim. Shotties have always had a random spread for the high power they have, needing a perk and great aim to get good accuracy is fine for ohks weapons with good ohk range potential, especially once they add 2-pellet kills.

I’m not repeating all the advantages adsing gets again. Nor that a 5 spread works just fine cqb, especially with 2 pellet kills, as it simply does. Many would argue that to be unfair as well. Though I feel pump slow shotties should have a very high reliability cqb when on target.

The reason they didn't have it in mw2 is because it had never been done yet and they didn't think of it.  Black ops was the first to do it.  I remember when ghandi was asked why steady aim tightness was lost while adsing, he thought it was a glitch at first because it makes sense for ads to allow for better accuracy.  Every weapon in every cod besides shotguns get more accurate while ads.  Shotguns are the odd man out.  One degree of spread tightening gives us a reason to ads without steady aim.  Currently there is not.

Lol, the real reason is because the stakeout is garbage anyway to do its low max damage range. I purposed to give that ads spread to the ksg, which has a pellet more, 100 units more max damage range & better damage on range (5 pellet kill with 21 damage per pellet x9 compared to 10x8 the stakeout has, which like said has 100 units worse max damage range too) and the ksg would still have the specialist bonus potential, but of course it’s only fair when it gets 2/9 kills and 3.25 to 4 spread adsed making it significantly easier to use and a lot more powerful. The spas in mw2 without Steady aim has a what 5.5 spread adsed. 2/8th pellet kills still make it a very effective gun cqb. It’s perfectly fine to need some skill to get great accuracy cqb (plus 400 damage after the power buff) and good long range ohk potential. Shooting very fast with steady aim still gives ads accuracy anyway, rewarding good players further.

People already hate that shotguns can get those shots let alone when they make it easier to get on target, especially with the specialist bonus getting even more damage on range & more overall range. Not happening, but keep dreaming. Realistically if they do give them 2-pellet kills they will remove some range potential to compensate for the range P & they won't make shotties (OHK) weapons easier to use.

Smgs have near 80% mobility while ads, stalker gives you 100% while ads.  They were not afraid of making perks less useful on other guns.  I don't like the 100% reliance on a perk for adding lethal range to shotguns in mw3.  No other weapon class has 100% reliance like that.

 

What we are asking for is a logical evolution for shotguns.  The 2 pellet kill that was introduced a long time ago, the 80% ads mobility that was introduced long ago, and a small degree of ads spread

tightening that was introduced in blackops.  These three things were all widely accepted features of shotguns in their own games.  We make small modifications to the capabilities these features give and we get balanced but more versatile shotguns.

Well, a retard game like mw2 has it like that and shotties were seen as OP there too for secondaries, on overall more open maps. You can't compare mw2 to mw3. The famas is the T95 actually beast long range as well with SP multipliers. The ump was a 2/3 hit kill all over the field.

Nearly all those things were only like that in that said title for a reason. They never had nearly the best of all together. Mw2 has better guns all-round with SP multipliers and yes I already know the high firing smgs are better now in mw3 cqb, which is fine if pumps get 2-pellet kills.

Besides I was never against 80 % ads on shotties. I wanted that a long time ago together with usas-12 sprint time on all bar the striker. They were widely accepted as those games all run differently like said. If the stakeout was put in MW3 like it’s, It would be the worst shotty do to its low max damage range and low damage on range (10). Oh and that’s with damage for shotties in mw3 as they don't get 3 pellet kills otherwise and we all know they are garbage without damage.

The rangers got hitmarkers but you could unleash 24 high damage pellets in like half a second.  Making any single shot inconsistencies negliable and not noteworthy.

The spas and 1887 with damage will still have a longer one shot kill range than your ksg with range.  Unless they are willing to give the ksg more range 35-15 damage is worthless in the face of the others.  All you would get over the spas and 1887 with a 35-15 ksg with range would be 50 more inches of hitmarker range but less overall lethal one shot range at the cost of close range reliability and a usefull specialist bonus.  That is not good balance.

The ksg's current design has more power and less range than the others.  making it do 35-15 while the others do 36-40 max damage absolutely reverses the ksg's current role in the shotgun category.  That is usually not something that is good.  The others will be more reliable in cqc and will have longer one shot potentials as well as being usefull with specialist.  35-15 ksg is outclassed by the others in every important aspect.

Wait I now see that it's a big post after a few quotes. Yes, a 3.25 to 4 spread adsed would make them noob weapons. It may not be hard to you but I rarely see people do well with the steady aim spread, especially on the ksg and spas you need great aim to get any constancy and cqb it's easy to not get it center mass without good aim as the spread is so tight. It's harder on range yes (which should be hard), but not easy at all to do constantly cqb either. Much harder than adsing constantly. The reason they gave these high power guns a 5 and 5.5 spread adsed. The power they have for pump slow shotties is the real problem not the skill level they need (that should remain high like it was even in mw2 for pumps with all the insta-killing autos all ranges and generally more open maps).

A 5 spread is fine, especially with 2 pellet kills cqb. You know this. You say a 3.25 to 4 spread won't be preferred to hip firing constantly, yeah no way. I would mainly ads. Ads is very fast on shotguns as a standard and much easier than hip firing with the steady aim spread. How is 3.25 to 4 a big change to 3.25 especially since moving in full speed and then hip firing is a lot harder than adsing and moving as well.

They won't fundamentally change shotties with that ads buff (giving you near steady aim spread, never happening) and a damage increase. Nuttin is "for it" without a damage buff (something they really need to limit hitmarkers cqb), only that would see plenty of hitmarkers especially with player movement and lag. I would be fine with an ads buff then as well, hell I even said a 3 spread on the ksg with 9 pellets. Which would make it the easiest pump shotty to use and most connection based.

I'm not making the assumption that the stakeout didn't need a buff (I always said to buff shotguns in blops). Stakeout would have been fine with a better max damage range and say 15 damage on range instead of 10 for that game. You're however asking them to make them significantly easier to use and for them to have a power buff in mw3, which would make them very annoying especially with the specialist bonus.

You can't take nearly the best of mw2 (where autos with SP like said are better / insta-kill all-round) & blops and expect the devs to give you those lethal shotties on these relatively cqb friendly maps.

Say whatever you like it just won't happen. Be happy if they even give the model and spas 2 pellet kills. They won't be doing both, with all the other little tweaks.

Man, it looks like this isn't what the community wants, it is what you want. Who are you to deem what is more important to a shotgun or not? I would choose Range over damage all day if a shotgun killed in 3/9. Really, if MW2 had a second tier Range proficiency, I would use it with the Spas.

Maybe having a gun in which range is obviously the best choice wouldn't be bad. Just think for a while. Multiple guns suited to multiple playstyles... but this is your thread anyway, so I'm outta here