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6155 Views 26 Replies Latest reply: Jul 25, 2012 12:11 AM by like2nap03 RSS
like2nap03 Master 2,529 posts since
Jan 17, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 23, 2012 1:28 AM

Something I just realized about lag compensation in MW3

This just occurred to me tonight.  Both MW3 and Ops had lag comp. Both caused deaths.  I think the reason it's so obvious in MW3, besides the fact that MW3 runs smoother, is the high weapon damage.  Or low health.  However you want to put it. You have all these high rate of fire submachine guns, low health, and lag comp to boot.  It's no wonder you appear to die instantly.  I think one thing that may help is if the health was like it is in Black Ops.  Where it takes more shots to kill you.  The split second difference may be enough time to get in an extra shot or react fast enough to do something instead of appearing to die instantly.  Just a though. 

 

Here's an example.  A p90, can shoot like 14 rounds a second according to a chart I just found.  It can kill you in 3.  If all of the first 3 shots hit, that's less than a quarter of a second and you're dead.  This is why I get accused of hacking as do so many others.  My aim is dead on most of the time due to the best FPS controls scheme the Wii has ever seen.  (Also a control scheme I hope makes it to black ops 2.  And I'm talking about the controls in MW3. They are a step above Black Ops if you take time to really queak and learn them.)  If I see you first, you'll be dead before you can blink.  Throw in an extra shot or two and that's enough time for the human body to react between the first and last rounds.  That could make a big difference.  Even with lag comp.  At least you may stand a chance.  Now this is taking into account that the game itself isn't laggy.  MW3 runs really smooth for me.  BLack Ops doesn't.  With lag, it's more about luck, but take that out, and with a smooth running game, that extra shot or two is enough time to do more than just fall over dead.  Maybe enough time to strafe while firing and survive the attack.  Don't over do it though.  They looking away from me shouldn't have so much tme that he can turn around, while I'm firing away, and then just drop me....unless he gets a head shot or has a shotgun.  But you get what I mean.

 

I don't know how much they can tweak the current lag comp algorithm.  The one they use is great for these games.  If everyone in the lobby has under 80 ms ping times, then it shouldn't matter.  The way the matchmaking works, it shouldn't be a problem unless the host leaves and a new host is chosen causing ping times to increase for some players.  I think it's more of a matchmaking problem that needs to be resolved.  Each type of lag comp has issues.  No matter what they do there will be some problems.  I think the solution is in the matchmaking.  I'm too tired to think of a complicated solution for this, and probably don't know enough about to anyway, but that's something to think about.  Of course some people have unstable connections or their brother may start streaming youtube while someone is playing and kill the connection.  That can't be helped.  So lag comp will always be an issues that cannot be resolved.  But maybe doing something like this will help.

 

If my numbers are wrong on the p90 feel free to correct me and I can do the math again.  I heard on the Wii it's actually 900rps.  If that's the case then that's 15 shots a second and you're dead even quicker. 

 

So here you go Treyarch team and Mr. Vonderhaar.  Something to consider if you have not done so already.  As far as Wii controls go.  Don't fix it if it ain't broke.  And it ain't broke.  Just watch out for attachment glitches like acog aimbot aim assist.  Even if that was there by design few people like it.

 

Any thoughs on this.  I see a podcast arugment...er um debate...er um good episode coming from something like this. 



Aside from that Treyarch, keep it running smooth, and keep out the hackers =  recipe for greatness. 

  • N1ckx2 Apprentice 83 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012

    The p90 shoots at ~600-700 rpms on the wii beleive it or not.  The pp90m1 shoots at 900, as does the pm-9  and type 95.  

     

    Also, you said something about the everyone in a lobby having under 80ms ping connections.  I've connected to a game with under a 80ms ping, and never searched for one below 80.  I usually join games with a 90ms ping connection.  Does it have to do with my NAT type, which is moderate?  I know what NAT type is, but would that effect this?

    • fissuresofrequent Master 2,293 posts since
      Sep 21, 2011

      :O You know a ai Fissure~?

  • phxs72 Master 3,627 posts since
    Feb 29, 2012

    You are correct about health versus weapon damage.  The first thing that I noticed when I switched from BO to MW3 was that it was sooo much easier to kill someone in MW3 than it was in BO.  And yes both games lagged but that extra health (or lower gun damage) did help to even out things somewhat or at least give you a fighting chance.  Generally in BO you could take a 1 bullet hit and still have time to engage the enemy but in MW3 by the time you realize that you've been hit you're probably already dead.

  • Ai_Red Novice 104 posts since
    Jul 4, 2012

    I strongly agree to this like2nap. Btw, you have a very seductive voice

  • MadHouseSRB Apprentice 496 posts since
    Jun 27, 2012

    Could anyone give me the short version of his speech? Im too lazy to read the whole thing and my eyes are red so..

  • Padiego Expert 2,473 posts since
    Jul 16, 2012

    I didn't care to read all of it. If you read it in that epic voice, i would listen to it.

     

    Anyways.....Lag Comp in BO wasn't as forgiving as lag comp is in MW3. In MW3, if you have a crap connection, the game pretty much hands you kills in a silver platter. Lag comp in BO was only seen when you got shot around corners. That's pretty much it. But in MW3....you see it everywhere, its so obvious. People pre-firing, getting shot around corners, randomly dying from someone you havent even seen yet.

  • nintendon\'t Master 3,905 posts since
    Jul 16, 2011

    like2nap03 wrote:

     

    Each type of lag comp has issues.

    Not true. Many games have perfect hit detection systems like Halo 2 for example. I was just playing that online the other night and it has pinpoint perfect hit detection. You never get shot around corners at all and you never get sometimes randomly outgunned when you shoot first like on MW3. Not to mention Halo 2 is an Xbox 1 game which is a slightly weaker system then the Wii.

     

    They can fix it. The problem is that they just don't care.

  • Shrydo Novice 147 posts since
    Jan 18, 2012

    They tried something different with the lag comp on mw3....and it failed miserably.  BO2 is supposed to run on the same engine....I hope to God that its not the same lag comp system.

  • nintendon\'t Master 3,905 posts since
    Jul 16, 2011

    like2nap03 wrote:

     

    If everyone in the lobby has under 80 ms ping times, then it shouldn't matter.  The way the matchmaking works, it shouldn't be a problem unless the host leaves and a new host is chosen causing ping times to increase for some players.

    MW3's lag problems is a combo of poor lag compensation and piss poor matchmaking. I....er my "friend" used a code in a few matches that shows everyone's ping on the scoreboard in game. Most of the people had pings of 100-300.  Both matchmaking and lag comp need a fix.

    • TKC_Sandman Newbie 51 posts since
      Jul 13, 2012

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