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4444 Views 18 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2012 1:37 PM by trolltbh RSS
vileself Master
vileself
4,866 posts since
May 23, 2011
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May 12, 2012 10:33 AM

Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

Apparently some recent tweets by Treyarch devs hinted at a new knifing mechanic for Black Ops 2.


Here is my ideal knifing/melee scenario for Black Ops 2. You do not have a knife by default, instead the knife should be unlocked in the equipment slot. Once equipped it can be melee'd or shot for a ONE hit kill (ballistic blade). If you do not have the knife equipped then your default melee attack is the butt end of your gun and that requires TWO hits to kill and has a very short range. The Bayonette should return and also be in the equipment slot. The Bayonette will increase your melee range plus make it a ONE hit kill, while the knife will have a shorter range yet the ability to throw and retrieve the blade.

 

So there are three forms of melee. The butt of the gun which has a very minimal range and is a 2 hit kill. The Ballistic Knife which has the same range as the gun but is only a 1 hit kill and the blade an be shot and retrieved. The Bayonette which increases the range of the melee attack and is a 1 hit kill.

 

Also if the Riot/Assault Shield is to be making an appearance in Black Ops 2 I say it should start off as a 2 hit kill but it should come with a Damage proficiency that makes it a 1 hit kill.

 

What do you think of my ideas? Whats your input on the melee mechanics for Black Ops 2? Discuss!

  • jasonroloff Apprentice
    jasonroloff
    906 posts since
    May 24, 2011
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    May 12, 2012 2:02 PM (in response to vileself)
    Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

    I like your ideas. If the bayonette returns, which I think is unlikely, I would rather see it as an attachment to your weapon.

  • vileself Master
    vileself
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    May 14, 2012 10:17 AM (in response to vileself)
    Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

    No one cares about a refined knifing system?

  • kastro187420 Master
    kastro187420
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    May 14, 2012 10:38 AM (in response to vileself)
    Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

    Well, as long as we're talking about it...

     

    1) No lunge at all. If somoene is not within the range to knife someone, that's their problem. It would be like shooting at someone, but not hitting them, and having the game say "Close enough" and give you hits anyway.

     

    2) 1HKO only from Behind. This eliminates any kind of possibility of a player knifing through your bullets for a free kill when they should've been dead. It also keeps the knife as a last resort tool, while keeping it effective.

     

    3) Move the default knife button to a new button (potentially an issue since all the buttons are used already). Personally, I'm all for "Tactical" being the default layout, so that knifing is the Circle Button (PS3).

     

    Basically, any combination using 2 or more of the above suggested ideas would make the knife so much better than it currently is right now.

    • vileself Master
      vileself
      4,866 posts since
      May 23, 2011
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      May 14, 2012 10:51 AM (in response to kastro187420)
      Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

      The lunge is a result of hit detection. It has nothing to do with the knifing mechanics at all. If anyone lunges with their knife or knifes you through bullets its because of hit detection and lag. So those issues will probably always be there.

       

      I like the idea of the knife being a OHK from behind but a 2HK from the front. This would definately stop people from knifing through bullets despite any form of lag and if you were a soldier and you snuck up on an enemy you'd probably slit his throat or gouge his jugular, both of which would equal to a OHK.

       

      Moving the knife button might be okay but I think a better solution would be to make it less sensitive. There are far too moments where I have absolutely no intention of knifing yet my thumb gets a TINY bit too heavy on R3 and I start swinging when Im intending on firing my weapon. The button is too sensitive, for me anyways.

      • kastro187420 Master
        kastro187420
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        May 14, 2012 1:15 PM (in response to vileself)
        Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

        vileself wrote:

         

        The lunge is a result of hit detection. It has nothing to do with the knifing mechanics at all. If anyone lunges with their knife or knifes you through bullets its because of hit detection and lag. So those issues will probably always be there.

         

        I disagree on this part. The Lunge itself is something programmed into the game (which is why they're able to tune it). Commando increased it, and Vahn stated in Black Ops that they had removed Commando, and thought they had found a nice balance. After some outcry, they reduced the lunge by about 33% more.

         

        There's a distinctive animation for the lunge vs slash, which tells me it's a delibert problem. In regards to having the Slashing Animation hit people from further away, that much is related to lag. But the actual lunge, that's something intentional.

    • trialstardragon Master
      trialstardragon
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      May 14, 2012 1:37 PM (in response to kastro187420)
      Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

      Kastro not all the buttons have been used. The D-Pad has 8 buttons to it not 4 like everyone forgets most of the time. Most games except Fallout Las Vegas do not use all 8 spots on the D-Pad.

      • kastro187420 Master
        kastro187420
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        May 14, 2012 1:43 PM (in response to trialstardragon)
        Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

        Except that the D-Pad already serves other functions. If they utilize it the same as they did in MW3, then we'll have:

         

        D-Pad Left: Attachment (GL, Masterkey, ect)

        D-Pad Right: Equipment

        D-Pad Up/Down: Kill Streak selection

         

        If you're referring to the diagonal directions, the odds are very slim that those will be used. Most games don't use them as you said. When I'm talking about all the buttons being used, I'm talking about all the practical buttons where a function would be assigned.

        • trialstardragon Master
          trialstardragon
          10,401 posts since
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          May 14, 2012 1:50 PM (in response to kastro187420)
          Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

          A button is a button is a button.

           

          So all buttons have not been used.

           

          Perhaps they need to revise and rethink on how they map the buttons and where to begin with.

           

          Even with the current button map it could still be placed on the switch weapons. You would just need to cycle through each weapon until you got to the knife.

           

          Prim, Sec, Knife. Thus it would take more time to pull it out and use so would have to be thought about before hand.

          • jasonroloff Apprentice
            jasonroloff
            906 posts since
            May 24, 2011
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            May 14, 2012 3:02 PM (in response to trialstardragon)
            Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

            trialstardragon wrote:

             

            You would just need to cycle through each weapon until you got to the knife.

             

            Prim, Sec, Knife. Thus it would take more time to pull it out and use so would have to be thought about before hand.

            This is one of the reasons why I like Vile's ideas. Either as equipment or as a secondary weapon the knife would have to be equipped first, which would take a little time.

             

            This would in my eyes take the knife back to its 'glory days' of cod4/WaW when the knife kill was a humiliating death.

  • operator-1 Master
    operator-1
    2,457 posts since
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    May 14, 2012 10:49 AM (in response to vileself)
    Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

    For the most part, I like the melee/knife attack the way it is.

     

    I think the problems with it might be more due to the game's out-of-sync/lag-related defects, not the melee/knife mechanics.

     

    No (or very minimal) lunge might be nice. I like having an instant 1-hit-kill melee/knife attack, but it should strictly be a point-blank range attack.

     

    I also think that being shot while in the middle of a melee/knife attack animation should cause the knifing player to flinch, with a high chance at missing the melee/knife attack entirely. Being shot while shooting your gun causes your gun to flinch & sends your gun off-target, so I think it should work the same for knifing. I don't think we should be able to melee/knife through bullets.

  • trialstardragon Master
    trialstardragon
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    May 14, 2012 1:35 PM (in response to vileself)
    Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

    In truth I always thought the game should only allow you to butt with the rifle if you press melee.

     

    Unless you have a knife and have it equiped and ready to use. Which would take a moment to equip and put away each time it was used. Thus making the knife designed more for planned out stealth kills. No BK either that can kill in one shot.

     

    The knife should only be a one hit kill if to the back, never from the front unless is to the heart area or the face, any where else and it just staggers and gives them a bloody red screen.

     

    The rifle butt would take at least 2 to kill to the face but maybe one if was too the back of the head only. All other hits would stagger and cause the other players screen to become bloody or darkened and hazy until the require hits were achieved to kill, possibly three to all other body parts

    • vileself Master
      vileself
      4,866 posts since
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      May 14, 2012 9:32 PM (in response to trialstardragon)
      Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

      It seems like a lot of people are a fan of the knife being a OHK from behind but a 2HK from the front.

       

      As for knifing through bullets I believe this is also a lag or perhaps a programming issue. When you are close enough to an enemy to get a successful melee kill and you press the knife button, the game is programmed to automatically get you that kill with features like auto aim. However sinse the animation of the action takes some time to perform this allows the other player to fire his/her weapon, sometimes achieving hit markers, only to get knifed and killed anyways. So the person who got knifed is angry because it seemed someone knifed them through their bullets but on the other guys screen he simply just knifed his enemy and got shot a couple times while he was swinging the blade. Once that guy pressed his melee button the game automatically decides that the other guy is going to die as a result of the swing. He's withing range, the auto aim is on and the button was pressed to execute the action. Any bullets that are fired AFTER the melee button is pressed are completely useless and provide no form of defence against the knifer.

       

      So either the game is lagging because the guy getting knifed is a split second behind the knifer therefore it SEEMS like he has time to shoot when in reality hes actually already dead OR the game is programmed to give an automatic kill to anyone who presses the melee button and is within range of an enemy. Both of these possibilities should be looked at and addressed in my opinion.

  • trolltbh Master
    trolltbh
    232 posts since
    Jan 23, 2012
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    May 15, 2012 5:46 AM (in response to vileself)
    Re: Lets Discuss the Knife/Melee attack!

    IMO the only thing that needs to be changed with stabs is no stabbing when akimbos or large weapons are out. Unless you drop your gun >: o

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