lol what a surpise, someone is arguing against an idea, when they've shown they don't even really know what proponents of the idea are even arguing in favor of, this is really quite new and exciting!

anyway shotgun discussion over plz gaiz, you're all getting in the way of the complaining about lag and matchmaking.  They haven't come close to fixing it in 6 months despite actively working on it for that period of time, but i'm sure their next patch will fix everything one and for all!  Ghandi plz help i was just playing this game and then i was lagging!  Game is unplayable!  Never playing again this again!

see you tomorrow to complain some more

I'll stop saying shotguns need buffed when everyone else stops saying they're fine.

Then it's a good thing that we're not talking about that in here anymore. The arguments and debate can happen in the thread that was linked.

This is not good logic because not all of those things pertain to the traits of each perk. Also, they can both be used at once. They are in different tiers. I think the way to really have balanced it would have been to put them both in the same tier

I'm sorry, but I have to draw the line somewhere.  You're right.  Not every gun should be exactly equal, but when guns exist that are hopelessly outmatched by all other weapons in their class something is wrong.  Look at the PM9, MP5, Dragunov, AA-12, AK-47, and CM901.

Honestly, all guns don't have to be amazing but I shouldn't be at a ridiculous disadvantage for choosing to use a gun.  Tell me, how often do you see people using the PM9, MP5, Dragunov, AA-12, AK-47, or CM901?  I've seen the CM and the AK, but only 10 people running all of the others combined in around 25 days.  At most, I see four people using shotguns in any given game.  This is in team deathmatch where there are 12 people on small maps like Dome, Seatown, and Mission.  This isn't a shotgun rant though.  This is a discussion of weapon balance in general.  If shotguns were so overpowered, everyone would be using them.  Just look at the MP7 and ACR.  They are the two most common guns I see.  Would you like to guess why?  I'll tell you.  Recoil and range.

Also, if 10 different developers said 10 different things, then that would just make me question all responses we've ever received.