Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 12:44 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Easier. Small maps+ Bad spawns= 30-1 in less then 3 minutes.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 12:49 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Much easier. I believe in trying to make the maps less camper-friendly, they only made it more. MW3's maps are a bit like Black Ops', they have lots of winding flanking paths, so you can never be sure where the enemy is, much unlike COD4's or most of MW2's maps. I think this makes people feel very insecure and more likely to camp, usually in a team though, as camping by yourself will probably just get you shot in the back. There are also lots of little choke points in these maps, which people like to camp in to rack up kills. Examples include the hallway in Lockdown, and the Eastern side of Fallen, where a lot more action seems to go on.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 1:10 AM (in response to Chairman Meow)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
The maps are way too angular.
Angles = Corner camping which is the bane of FPS players.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 1:13 AM (in response to Ecliptix)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
I don't necessarilly see corner camping, I see teams of 4+ people all sitting around in corners the centre of Hardhat waiting for people to come to them. It slows down the game and can be difficult to get them out, especially with how weak the explosives are in MW3. Perhaps this is also a reason why people like this were a much rarer sight in MW2: explosives.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 1:14 AM (in response to Chairman Meow)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
What i meant to say is I see "team camping", not people camping all by themselves.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 1:54 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
You know, its definitely not everyday that davidlsofferman and I agree on something. That should tell you something. Camping is ... "easier" ... or at least, it looks like it should be that's for sure.
Although I disagree with his reasoning behind it.
Yes, I think the average size of the maps is smaller. But Bakaara is not a "small" map. Narrow, yes, small no. And Bog in MW1 was relatively small in comparison to anything equivalent in MW3 ... yet that map was a sniper-fest.
I think things like "camping" come in waves or trends. The trend, IMO, is that camping is starting to wane a little.
In any case, I find it incredibly odd that people are increasingly complaining about campers. We started seeing intense camper flaming with Black Ops. In MW2, I was in a match where me and two other guys had a combined kill count of over 500 kills - and we were on the same team. Yet, no one complained that we camped??? Yes, there videos of people getting 100+ kills in Black Ops and in MW3 ... but not multiple people on the same team doing it.
Yet ... somehow the camping has gotten ... worse?? More frequent??
No, I don't think that's why more people are complaining about campers.
It isn't any "easier" to camp and it certainly has not become a more effective to camp. In fact, taking out campers has become incredibly easier with the Support Strike Package, EMP grenades, and a fairly effective Assassin perk. But the temptation to camp is definitely greater.
So ... the kill counts are not getting higher with camping ... camping is not getting easier ... why is it such a big deal?
I think I know why.
What changed in Black Ops and MW3 regarding camping? The obvious answer is that there are more tools to support campers. There's more temptation to camp because the tools to help a person camp are so delicious looking.
You would think that would make camping able to help people run up high kill counts and that's not happening.
Hard camping is a bad strategy. Its bad because if a player gets killed in the same area by the same opposing player more than once ... its pretty obvious where the camper is hiding and that's 90% of the battle to kill him.
But now you don't need to get killed 3 times to figure out where the camper is. Now all you need to do is ...
... see his camper tools.
The camper now has less tools than ever to help him kill anyone coming after him. He's spent his equipment slots on tools that are supposed to help him ... but those tools are not getting him direct kills.
But people are SEEING more of those tools so they now can identify easier when someone is camping - even if they don't kill him or are killed by him.
Summing it all up ... camping, IMO, has become harder because players rely too heavily upon their equipment to do the work. Even though it is harder, there might be more people trying to camp because of that equipment Instead, that equipment is giving away the fact that they are camping ... and that's causing people to "see" more campers in games than they have in previous COD titles.
I think the reality is that there are no more "campers" than there were in any other COD. We just think there are more because it is so much easier to figure out when someone is camping. In the past, "good" campers were "good" because no one could figure out where they were. I really don't know if there are more or less. I don't give it much thought during a game.
But that's just MHO.
One other note in support of my "theory" here ... the definition of "camper" has changed over the COD years, too. Now you can't get the same definition of a camper from two players to save your life (I'm being rhetorical there, not literal). The reason is because we think we are seeing more campers - and maybe we are ... but I don't think the actual percentage of campers has changed at all.
edit - fixed a couple of grammar/syntax issues ... and added some comments or reworded them to better clarify what I am conveying.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 2:53 AM (in response to nuttin2say)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
@nuttin2say, first of all, I wanna point out the irony of that name, lol. Second, I agree with quite a bit of what you said. Take my opinion as just that, an opinion. I'm not an avid FPS player (never pristeged in MW2 and never even played Black Ops.) but I think either camping has gone down or has stayed the same. In MW2, I had no problem with the sniper rifle because there were maps like mansion that made it easy. In 3 I can't find a descent place to use it. If there is any long lines of sight, there's 3 ways to get around it and for people to flank you.
That being said, just as a human tendancy, if I kill 4 people in a row while standing in one spot, I'm gonna stay in that spot for a little while and try my luck. Thing is, every time I try to do that, I die in 4 seconds.
All in all I think camping is a play style. There's always going to be people that do it or try to do it no matter what. There's also people that can't for the life of them stand it, like me. It's like running into greifers in MMOs. They're always gonna be around, might as well get used to it.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 3:15 AM (in response to Krackshot)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
@ Krackshot ...
I don't "say" much but I think a lot and that comes out in writing. LOL.
Sometimes I overthink stuff too though.
Anyway, I like the BO comparison. In that game, other than a couple of the DLC maps, every camping point had at least one flank. In BO, there are 2 flank points everywhere. WaW wasn't too bad about flanking routes. MW2 had places where you could not flank without a coordinated team effort. MW1 was the same way.
I think that's how the devs are dealing with it. The maps seem cluttered and inviting to campers ... but really they've opened up multiple routes to the camper. I could list a ton of examples ... but my cuddling next to my mrs just sounds so appealing to my mind right now.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 1:53 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
They eliminated it completely!!!
They call it patrolling now
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 5:02 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
To answer the original question : it is definitely much reduced compared to BO & MW2, due to the increased flanking options cited by others.
At the risk of being a lone voice in the wilderness : do we want to ELIMINATE camping entirely?
- Only a word ;-)
- A method/style of play that adds to the variety of the total playing experience, just as do all of the psycho-banzai nutters running around with knifes and akimbo weapons
- Reflects the different psychology of those seeking a more realistic playing experience
Ok - shoot me down.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 5:25 AM (in response to GolfHacker27)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
@GolfHacker27: No shooting down. Very valid point that I happen to agree with.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 5:43 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
they werent they should add lightweight and more catches to perks to make people run around.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 10:34 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
@ GolfHacker27 ...
I think, so far, most posts to this thread are in agreement with you. And those agreeing there is less camping have well-thought out reasons for feeling that way.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 10:38 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
camping isnt that bad in mw3 the simple fact is it doesnt matter how people die they blame it on campers you can be ducking down to reload or use a killstreak and still be called a camper
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 10:53 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
deffently less places for campers, though i'll admit to 'camping' but only on maps were i can use a sniperrifle overwise i use my other classes,
though i have ran in to times were there is only 1 entry point and it's being coved by another player so the only way to kill the camper is to well... blow them up.. lol
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 4:08 PM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Some people dont have the I.Q or hand-eye coordination to play this game (even though little is needed), but they buy the game anyway to jump on the bandwagon.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 6:53 PM (in response to Clan_Killah)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Some people dont have the I.Q or hand-eye coordination to play this game (even though little is needed), but they buy the game anyway to jump on the bandwagon.
The truest statement ever made in a Call of Duty forum.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 6:45 PM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
And also, after playing the maps a bunch of times over and over, the "ideal" camping spots people tend to like are easy to remember, so you either...
A.) Avoid those areas more often if you can help it.
B.) Be more cautious if you choose to go through those areas instead of just recklessly charging in, guns blazing or not; flash/concussion/EMP grenades, Portable Radar, UAV, etc. And even if something like Portable Radar or UAVs don't show anything, one shouldn't assume there's no one there because of Assassin (Pro) lovers (yes, one thing that helps killers ALSO helps campers).
C.) Wait for a teammate(s) and storm the place together since, depending on the spot and all, chances are one of you will kill the camper and maybe even both of you can survive.
...I mean, I don't consider myself a camper, but I have defended general areas before and I've constantly had people simply running around without ever really (from what I see on my screen anyway) ever bother really looking around.
Both them AND my teammates. Like when using a Portable Radar, UAV, Recon, Recon Drone, or something that makes opponents show up on radar, it's like tons of teammates I have never even bother looking at their radar given how they still seem to get taken by surprise by a person that, according to the blips on their radar if they bothered looking, is right there around the corner heading right for them and, when using Recon Pro or Advanced UAVs, looking in their direction.
Of course, that won't stop people from trying to camp, but it also doesn't make it any less annoying...
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 7:11 PM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Wah wah wah, I could run up the middle of the map right after the game started. Stand behind a barrel and pick a guy off. That guy would still call me a camper.
The only thing that kills you in this game are campers.
The FMGs promote camping, wah wah if anything those things promote running more.
The maps promote camping. Not true either, Black Ops maps were tons easier to camp because most vantage points had one flank route. Black Ops maps let you control the flow of the game from one vantage points on most maps. Coupled with the borderline "OP" flak jacket perk camping was much easier in Black Ops.
Jungle, Nuketown and Firing Range were notorious for this, but it could be done on any map.
Camping has always been easy in CoD games. People act like it's an epidemic of some kind. There's just more people playing now so campers are seen more often. In all honesty, there far more run and gunners in this series then there are campers.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 11:31 PM (in response to Missing Snorlax)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
MW3 is the camp king!!!
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 5, 2012 11:40 PM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
I wasn't aware that they were trying to get rid of camping. Why not get rid of run and gunning instead?
I find it quite funny that people are still complaining about camping in this game. Almost every single map is too small to camp. Every building has 15 entrances so you can't camp in any building effectively. Claymores and betties are countered by several different perks which makes them COMPLETELY useless. This game was built for run and gunning.
It's also funny that people think they should try to remove camping in the first place. Why should they change the game because a minority of kids with ADD all hopped up on ritalin come on here and complain all day long because somebody out smarted them and killed them right before they got their juggernaut or MOAB.
If there were no killstreaks in the game people wouldn't even cry about camping. I highly doubt that the camper who goes 6 and 2 in a full match is that much of a problem other than ruining your killstreak.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 6, 2012 12:09 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
anyone who says they are successfuly holding down an area by them selves for more than 30 seconds or killing more than 5 people on any map without moving more than 10 feet in any direction is out right lieing through their teeth. and thats what camping is. not moving and remaining in one fixed spot.
this game does not allow someone to go prone for more than a minute before you have pissed off at least 2 people on the other team enough to make it their first priority to take you out.
sure you get the lucky game when you do a 180 turn and get the guy coming from behind or you get a team of 8 people who are 14 years old and absolutly no clue that happens once in every 100 games. or when you get the lucky lag comp connection and you have forever to look at a guy on a head to head confrontation before you kill him with 1 bullet from any gun, it does happen but it's not because of skill.
to the guy who said there are camping tools but they dont really work is 100% correct. 1 claymore or BB 2 trophies that you can't replenish compared to the team your killing that gets fully reloaded everytime you take them out not to mention the kill cams show exsactly where you hit them from. and yeah no where is safe in this game for very long because the FMJ makes the bullets travel through the entire map through everything.
there is no camping, it's impossible, kids with no idea how to play this game can mop the floor with you thanks to activision's lag comp system they can take out an entire team dug in with every loadout possible without trying.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 6, 2012 2:43 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
but camping is no that problem like cheaters they are in all game congratulation Activision i report someone in all game with i play
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 6, 2012 9:48 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
I rather not be at the mercy of this game's horrendous spawn system. This has lead me to play more cautiously and defensively. Unfortunately this style of play is not as easy as you may think when alone. Its way easier to get flanked (2-3 entrance to all good spots), your equipment is not replenishable and defensive perks have been split up into at least 2 different perks to get the same benefit (Cold-blooded/Ghost Pro = Assassin Pro + Blind Eye Pro). Lets not even go into the perma-UAV spam. Despite these short-comings I rather play defensively than run around senseless getting killed by dropshot, quick scope or mowed down by akimbo FMG9 or strikers. Let them come to me and pry me out of my spot. Once I've been killed I will either find another spot or if there is none change to my golden Striker with range+extended mags for senseless spawn/deathfest.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 6, 2012 9:41 AM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Still possible to camp.
Pretty much any shooter will have camping, unless you do like a Wolfenstein fan map and make the entire map just one hallway with no cover.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 6, 2012 5:11 PM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Hey guys. Thanks for all the great answers so far.
There's one more thing I would like to ask, though.
While I know camping has been made harder, have they done the same to Domination?. As in, can you still defend flags and get high killstreaks like you could in past CoD's?. I really hope they haven't messed with that. As capping AND defending flags is what Domination is about.
Currently Being ModeratedFeb 7, 2012 3:20 PM (in response to Wildcat_Joey)Re: How effective were they at eliminating camping in MW3?
Going to mark an answer as "Correct" later, even though I marked this thread as a "Question" when I started it when it's really more of a debate. As there's no right answer.
Feel free to answer the question above this post, if you want. It would really help.