Jan 17, 2012 5:48 PM
The point of the Dragunov is... what exactly? Also another thing...
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Having recently prestiged (again), I wanted to try something other than the most used weapons.. so I wanted to try the Dragunov as a Sniper Rifle... and now I understand why it's never used. It's completely useless in every sense of the word. The Barret and L118, which are default unlocks, are far superior to it, and once you add in "kick", even the recoil isn't bad.
What is the point in having a Sniper Rifle that doesn't kill in one shot in 90% of the instances you use it? From what I can gather, it only kills in one shot to the head... and thanks to the atrocious lag system in this game, that's about as random as the spawn system. And once you put on a suppressor, it even takes 2 shots to the head.
What was wrong with the CoD4 Dragunov? The one that killed in 1 shot to the chest and up? That was my favorite sniper from CoD4. Why take a good weapon, make it garbage, and then actually put it as a level-up unlock instead of a default unlock?
Not that I actually expect any reply from an IW/Sledgehammer dev....
Also:
Type-95 W/Rapid Fire + Steady Aim is more effective as a shotgun than every real shotgun except the Striker, and only when you get extended Magz on it.
Akimbo FMG is the ultimate counter to Juggernaut. You can literally drop them within seconds. From Full Health to 0 within 3 seconds it seems like, if that.
Shotgun Sniper Rifles still exist and are still hurting the game. But they can't risk alienating the younger kids (their core demographic), so I don't expect anything done about that.
I get one shot kills all the time but I only play HC. A lot of people use it in HC. It's by far one of my favorite sniper rifles.
In Hardcore you would use it, but any Assault Rifle with an ACOG is probably better than a Sniper Rifle anyway it seems like.
Perhaps the Juggernaut suits should be patched and gain 100% extra damage resistance to machine guns? I'm talking about the secondaries here, primaries are fine as they are.
None of you are using the Dragunov properly. Put an ACOG on it and it pwns. In fact it was the only sniper I used in the last prestige and it was awesome. Just try to keep in Med. range and go prone. ANYONE who plays on Fallen should NOT be without one
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The RSASS completely destroys the Dragunov in every way. It is pretty pointless.
Also, the Type 95 with Rapid Fire is also a good counter to Juggernauts.
RSASS vs. Dragunov
RSASS: 20 rounds per clip
Dragunov: < 20 rounds per clip (10? I forget, I don't touch it)
RSASS: Fast fire rate
Dragunov: Same rate as RSASS if I remember from rapid fire testing
RSASS: Predictable recoil (up/right)
Dragunov: Recoil goes EVERYWHERE
Technically the stats are the same.
Yeah, it's pointless. Use an RSASS.
This is another thing I hate:
Here's a great example of the last match I played with the USAS12:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb6bm4OZT98
Theater butchered the processing (I had about 3 or 4 seconds of the clip at the start get lost... that's CoD for ya!), but you can see in the slowed down part, that the first shot had about half my crosshairs on him.. the second shot had full crosshairs.. and despite that, the guy was still alive.
Why do these companies never test their products correctly? It's not like this is hard to miss or anything.. this happens nearly every match. Yes, I know shotguns MIGHT receive a buff... but what that buff actually is, who knows.
It has 20 rounds just like the rsass does. It is the rsass before the rsass is unlocked for those that can use it well. It is not useless, for only it and the rsass can be fired as fast as they can and that is the advantage of both over other snipers its fast rof allowing for another round downwind if the first missed the head very quickly.
Yes the recoil is a little eratic; but if it was the same as the rsass there would be no reason to include the rsass in the game.
The Drugonov is the rsass in a sense in that it takes several shots to kill unless it a head shot. It has always been that way in CoD. It was never meant as a power house to get ohk anywhere else but the head.
trialstardragon wrote:
The Drugonov is the rsass in a sense in that it takes several shots to kill unless it a head shot. It has always been that way in CoD. It was never meant as a power house to get ohk anywhere else but the head.
It killed in the upper chest in BO and CoD4. Try again.
@Kastro - Testing products for CoD now is too much for them. Any company serious with a quality product will take in community ideas/feedback, or release a beta and see how things operate, or have dedicated servers if the community complains that their last game was frustrating with lag, OR never repeat the same mistake twice. This game is only for teh monniess.
You didn't do much testing if these people are finding 4-6 major glitches in the past 1.5 months!!
It never killed in one in BO for me even if I hit dead center chest. And yes it was dead center. It always took two unless was in hc. It only killed in one if was a head shot.
Black Ops' Dragunov has 1.5x multipliers to the head, neck and chest. It did kill one shot to the chest.
I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on IW and SH. I would put it down primarily to the major time restraints imposed on them by Activision.
just curious, if that dragunov isn't a dragunov, what should it be? if you answered "it should be like ____.", then you're wrong and borderline stupid.
why be able to unlock a different gun at all if it has some duplicate? the dragunov is supposed to work that way, if not, the the sniper rifles on the list would list two versions of some 'good gun'. at the same time, some of ya'll would be complaining about a lack of variety. no win situation.
The dragunov should be like the dragunov in previous titles... useful. Unlocking a gun that is statistically worse than pretty much every other gun in the game seems rather pointless. That's like going to work and working towards earning a punch in the face.
Wouldn't you much rather work towards something a little better? The dragunov has to be unlocked (aka earned)... yet it's worse than every other sniper rifle in the game. Why isn't it a default unlock? Why not let us unlock the Barret or L118 in it's place? At least then, being a default sniper, it would make sense that it sucks.
Not worse then every other sniper. It has a higher rof then most snipers the only other sniper that is as fast is the rsass. The recoil is very little on the gun, it is meant to be a precision sniper like the rsass and not spammed like the .50 call or the as50 is at times.a
And there you go making the common mistake that all players do in games. Expecting every weapon in the game to be exactly the same from one game to the next. That just because it worked one way in one game, it should work the same in all games with the gun in it.
No, the Dragunov is meant to be spammed. It has a ton of recoil, the way to make it useful is to go into prone and spam as the Dragunov has almost no recoil when in prone. I often use silencer and extended mags so that I can have 15 shots insteasd of 10 and the silencer only makes a difference for headshots.
BTW the dragunov only has 10 shots per magazine while the RSASS has 20, also the RSASS can kill in 1 hit from the chest up, you must not use the guns too often.
Hmm.. strange when I used it, I had 20 rounds with the drugunov same as the rsass. And it the recoil is very easy to control on it if you do not try to full auto spam it like people do with the .50 at times. But then again those could be the extra clip too, now that I think about it. Either way its not hard to use either crouched or prone or even standing.
The recoil when standing seems random, it's too much to put in a second shot on most people as they will just run into cover, spamming or not. My K/D with it is 1.62, which is pretty much on par with my overall K/D (just a little bit above) so the weapon can be effective, I have 500-600 kills with it and when standing, all other sniper rifles completly outclass it. Unless however, you get lucky with the random recoil.
I do not have much problem with the recoil no more then I do with the rsass really. I always aim center of mass. so even if it pulls in a random direction I still get the hit and kill 85% of the time. Crouching is a little better with it yes. But overall it is far from being a bad sniper rifle. Just too many people became complacent with snipers like the l1 and the .50 killing in one shot almost every time. So when dealing with one that you have to be even more precise with they do not like it.
Yeah, it's pointless. I constantly shoot people in what appears to be the neck and they continue to just walk away. It should be a OHK in the chest and a two hit kill in the stomach. I know they don't want it to be overpowered, but at least make it useful. There is NO reason to use the Dragunov over the RSASS.
Its not meant to be a 1 shot kill you freakin moron
Can't tell if you're trolling or not.... A sniper rifle's sole design and purpose is for 1hko shots. To design one NOT to get a 1hko would either take a big troll at the studio, or incompetance on their part.
Wrong the purpose of a sniper is a long range support rifle with a capacity to get one shot kills if aimed correctly. They are not guranteed to get them all the time nor should they be ever. No sniper in the game should always kill in one shot unless aimed at the correct area of the body that the sniper is geared for, not just anywhere. But with lag that will not always happen either. And even BF3 has the same problems with its snipers. they do not always kill in one either.
I'm not suggesting a sniper rifle should be a 1hko to every part of the body. That's excessive. But I see no reason that it shouldn't be allowed a 1hko to the chest.. even just the upper chest. In an FPS like Call of Duty, in which connection pretty much means everything, making a sniper rifle ONLY kill to the head is just a bad idea.
This is the reason you rarely ever see it used outside of Hardcore game modes. We don't need every weapon to be the same, but we also shouldn't be afraid of making the weapon useful.
Short of adding it purely to pad the weapon list, it has little value. It's there for the sake of being there, and that's just as bad as making all the other weapons a clone of one another.
snap an acog on and use it like a reg. rifle. Why would you want every weapon the same anyways? even counter-strike had auto snipers - they serve a specific purpose, and its still a 1 shot kill in hardcore, witha lot less kick than a barrett
kastro187420 wrote:
I'm not suggesting a sniper rifle should be a 1hko to every part of the body. That's excessive. But I see no reason that it shouldn't be allowed a 1hko to the chest.. even just the upper chest. In an FPS like Call of Duty, in which connection pretty much means everything, making a sniper rifle ONLY kill to the head is just a bad idea.
This is the reason you rarely ever see it used outside of Hardcore game modes. We don't need every weapon to be the same, but we also shouldn't be afraid of making the weapon useful.
Short of adding it purely to pad the weapon list, it has little value. It's there for the sake of being there, and that's just as bad as making all the other weapons a clone of one another.
You're beating a ghostly horse arguing with Trial.
You can't have any topic without the Type 95 or Akimbo anything. The point is "variety"
Yes, but it adds nothing to the game. It has the same multipliers and ROF as the RSASS, but higher recoil and smaller size magazines. There is no reason to choose the Dragunov over the RSASS.
Unless you do not have the RSASS unlocked by either a token or by rank yet after prestigeing. So yes there is a reason to use it and it is not nearly as bad as so many try to claim. I have gone 20-15 with it several times before even on a small map like Dome with out even trying to QS. Just using it as a regular sniper, and even holding breath at times for long shots.
It's hardly a long wait between unlocking the Dragunov and RSASS. I didn't say it was useless, I too do well with it when I use it, all I'm saying is it that it's completely outclassed by the RSASS, and to balance this and add some variety to the snipers they should add a chest multiplier to it. Think of it, there's four snipers that OHK to the head, neck, chest and stomach, and two that OHK to the head only, but there's nothing in between! Adding a chest multiplier to the chest would make the Dragunov far more usefull and fill that gap in the range of sniper rifles.
If I got that K/D with the dragunov I would be disappointed, I can do very well with the gun but I agree that it is simply inferior to the RSASS, I will continue to use the dragunov purely because I like a challenge. I'm close to getting gold camo for it ![]()
my opinion for whats its worth is its all wrong.
imo all snipers should be ohk to head, chest, stomach regardless. snipers should also get ghillie and 'no red name ect' as std for the class, but should be the slowest moving soldier in the fight, slowest to reload an slowest to ads.
balance rof out by kick an sway
you get camo, concealment, an power but it costs you mobility, reaction an firepower
what is wrong with a sniper being a sniper ? other than the fact you prob wont be able to run gun an own all, by yourself using only a long range, precision weapon
The point of...
M4A1
M16A4
SCAR-L
CM901
AK-47
FAD
MP5
UMP45
PM-9
L86 LSW
MG36
PKP Pecheneg
MK46
M60E4
Barrett .50cal
Dragunov
AS50
RSASS
USAS 12
KSG 12
SPAS-12
AA-12
Model 1887
Skorpion
G18
USP .45
P99
MP412
.44 Magnum
Five Seven
Desert Eagle
SMAW
XM25
M320 GLM
is what exactly?
With the exception of some of the launchers and shotguns, most of them can be used decently in respect to their counterparts in the same class. The dragunov... can't. Compare it to any other rifle in it's class, and it's outclassed completely. You can make the argument that it works for Hardcore, but at that point, you might aswell just slap an ACOG on an Assault Rifle and go from there. It would be just as effective and far more versatile.
Ok, give me one reason to use the CM901 over ACR.
further range.
ACR: Kills in 3 hits up to 34 meters before it 4 hit kills.
Needs one headshot and two hits to the body to three hit kill on long range.
Has low and predictable recoil.
CM901: Kills in 3 hits up to 37.5 meters before it 4 hit kills.
Needs three headshots to three hit kill on long range.
Has high and unpredictable recoil.
Yep.
All of 10% longer range.
Then add in the fact that AK 47 has marginally longer range and lower recoil, and faster rate of fire, and CM901 finds itself twice outclassed.
If enough people care to reply and ask for it to to be patched to OSOK to the chest w/out sniper and head and neck w/ silencer, it can get patched.
As i said on a previous topic, the dragunov and the rsass are not sniper rifles, they are dsignated marksmen rifles hense the lower power output and higher rate of fire. you can't run them expecting to headshot everyone. you have to treat them as though they're assault rifles in the same mould of the mk14, except they have a better scope. knowing that, i've gone from getting single digit kills with the msr, l118a, and barret to getting high teens with the dragunov with a silencer, even though its a suppressor not a silencer.
SVD.
Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova
Dragunov.
It's NAME tells us that it is in fact a sniper rifle.
Besides, it one hit killed to the chest WITHOUT stopping power in CoD4 AND MW2
In MW2, it one hit killed TO THE CHEST when silenced, with stopping power.
RSASS.
Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System.
...
...
...
You go tell those manufacturers and snipers using said weapons that they are wrong!
For reference, M21 killed on one hit to the chest with stopping power in CoD4 and MW2.
Actually neither of those two are true sniper rifles they are semi-auto rifles. that are cross over breeds, they are meant to be able to function as a AR with the higher power level of a traditional sniper but the ease of use and speed of semi auto ar.
They can call them what ever they want but that does not make them such a weapon.
Just like the mk14 is a AR that tries to be a sniper rifle, and the FAD tries to be a smg. They are actually a breed of cross class weapons that are meant to perform between both classes, thus giving the individual user the benefits of both weapon classes.
Does it hurt, much -- or only when you try to be smart?
The .50 Barret isn't a sniper rifle -- because it's semi-automatic too?
Even the broken infinityward got it right, placing them as sniper rifles.
The Dragunov one hit killed to the chest in the two previous Modern Warfare games -- which featured stopping power.
Guess what: It didn't need stopping power.
Now consider the fact that stopping power got added to a lot of weapons in MW3; M4, ACR, Mk14, G36C, P90, PP90M1 and Type 95 all got stopping power. (Based on their damage compared to the damage of similar weapons in the previous games).
AK47 did not get stopping power, only marginally longer range than ACR.
(Look how that turned out,)
ALL guns should be unique or have something in their favor, but the Dragunov has nothing going for it. When a gun is completely outclassed, it needs changing. End of story. I just don't know what would be a suitable buff for it to perform differently from the RSASS but still make it balanced. I guess that's up to IW.
This is a problem that was rampant in Black Ops, where there were many copy and paste guns, but some of them would have tiny advantages to them so there was literally no point in using the inferior gun, such as the FAMAS>AUG case.
Dragunov also has worst scope of any of the snipers...LOL!
the dragunov scope is awesome,the dragunov is one of the best guns in the game.
For best results treat it like an M14, it seems to work best for me when you treat it more like an assault rifle. Plus a little added range with the acog.
I LOVED the dragunov in CoD4 and the Wazoo in MW2.
It makes me want to play MW2 again -- which is quite reasonable for anyone wanting to use a sniper:
Some of the maps are over 300 feet long in MW2!
Except the OMA problem ruins the dream.