Dec 8, 2011 2:58 PM
Bandwidth usage on 360 - Does it explain away the supposed lag comp issue?
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Some of you may find this information useful for reasons other than the intent of this thread, as some ISP's around the world still have max donwload caps per month or whatever.(I read somewhere that this is a big problem in Australia..?). Those discussion threads are what led me to inquire about Mw3's bandwidth usage.
Many people have been blaming more lag in each successive CoD on the game being more complicated, more stuff going on, and therefore more network traffic. It kind of makes sense, but without data it IS still only guessing.
As it turns out, my router has a monitor built in for how much data transfer there is.
In 30 minutes of hard gaming(backing out every lobby and re-searching, I had almost all mid-game joins, minimizing down time between data exchange periods during 1 minute lobby waits), I ended up with 7.5mb or so Downloaded, and 6.5mb or so uploaded. Sure, I could test for a longer time, but in the end that leads to innaccuracies of it's own. hosts rage quitting(leading to more wait lobbies and searching), the need to get up to pee, drink, smoke, etc.
I am assuming that I was not host.
This is on par with what I could google on Mw2's 15mb/hour rates. I'll even be generous and up my numbers to an even 20mb/hour rate to account for games where everyone is dropping bombs and other air support, and to account for the lobby and search time. Keep in mind some of this is post game as well, uploading of stats and such.
Lets get into some numbers on what that means to you and your connection.(here's the part that people with bad ISP's will want to pay attention to)
A low end DSL connection is 1mb(Or is it labeled Mb? whichever). In reality, when that user downloads a file, the best he can expect is about 100k/sec, and that adjusts on scale. 3Mb connections will download at about 300k/sec(assuming a strong source).(that's what I have for a connection)
Now, lets split up our generous 20mb an hour. Divide by 60 for the per minute rate, then again by 60 for the per second rate.
5.5(repeating)k/sec. HOLY CRAP!!! NO WONDER WE LAG.....wait a minute..
That's a little over what amounts to max....for dial-up 56k users.
Host will obviously see more traffic than these numbers as they have to sent out the information to everyone. I rarely pull host at home so I cannot provide those numbers. I'm sure the community would be grateful for a known host to contribute his numbers. but again, we could be generous and make an informed guess.
TDM is 6v6, and so host has to send info to 11 clients. So at a maximum, we could multiply our results by 11, coming up to 60.5k/sec for an average rate host would need to utilize. Still well under the typical 1Mb download max of 100k/s.
I don't see any support for the pro-lag comp argument that says "The game has more events, and therefore needs more bandwidth, and that's why it's laggy" as far as being a client participant goes(maybe host has issues with this, but I have doubts)
Any into-it gamer geek won't be suprised by those low low numbers. FPS games are constant traffic, but never bandwidth heavy. The aspects of connection that are far more important are ping and line quality(dropped packets and high delay screw with gaming).
/tests were done without using party chat and playing solo
//It's rumored(and I've seen in other games) that party chatting with the built in xbox feature can screw up a game's performance. It's done that since Halo 3(all the way through BO), you see someone teleporting(bad lag in previous games would correct a players position with an instant teleport) and 8 times out of ten they were in a voice party.
///I dislike that they artificially made this game smooth. You don't see much of that auto-correct of player location, only in really really bad lag spikes. It was a useful tool in previous games to see who was lagging, if EVERY one was teleporting around, it was a bad host, otherwise it was just those that were teleporting. It was a convenient tool to see if you or others were suffering a lag.
////pardon any mislabelings of k/s, mb, Mb. etc. I can never keep it straight which gets capitalized and which not.
How to solve Lag Compensation issue
http://gamer-corps.com/forums/content.php?131-Having-problems-with-the-Lag-Compi nsation
Gamer-Corps wrote:
How to solve Lag Compensation issue
http://gamer-corps.com/forums/content.php?131-Having-problems-with-the-Lag-Compi nsation
what an amazing discovery #facepalm
It is also not a safe guide. I does not tell what to do on your other hooked up devices.
/shorted out my entire network
//had to reset to default and open nat again
///I have a Zonet router and can't find a good guide(entirely too many options, there are about 6 places I can change mtu, it also doesn't show what mtu is by default so I can just change it back)
:'( aren't we just lucky i was very unlucky to have a actiontec q1000 and from what i've been told i cant change my mtu and that its already set for me >_> to 1500 smh.
being host of a 12 man game pulls 28-32k a second
I have been host of 3 games at the same time
and it hasnt caused any problems
everyone still 4 bar
on my 1216 kbps upstream
shonk wrote:
being host of a 12 man game pulls 28-32k a second
I have been host of 3 games at the same time
and it hasnt caused any problems
everyone still 4 bar
on my 1216 kbps upstream
Thanks for the info. I expected right around 40ish.
it does peek upto around 38k per game
but not very often
it depends who's doing what and such at that moment
From what I've listened to in an audio interview with Mark Rubin, executive producer on MW3, he mentioned that MW3 takes less bandwidth compared to previous COD games.
But what I find odd is why the game is not running as smooth compared to previous COD games?
Would Theater & COD Elite be the reason to what is making both Black Ops & MW3 frequently laggy compared to pre-MW2?
i loved in that interview (im assuming it was the one you linked to me ahile back) right before the less bandwidth comment he also said adding stuff adds to bandwidth..and erm they added alot more stuff...
It was very much a stealth clown comment ie you need to read between the lines and/or ignore it as bollox. whenever you have a ks up you are basically adding another level of data to be transmitted for all intensive purposes its like adding another player as most ks are seperate from the user, ie drop a sentry gun and run off somewhere else its still firing off rounds and killing people .
But its basically semantics with a dash of spin while there maybe less bandwidth used by the game the overal traffic has increased in the past two games, you prolly remember from blops i kept saying this and spent months driving myself crazy working out what was causing it (glares at theatre and elite)
interesting side note though Mark rubin also did an interview just after codxp where he was basically bitching that isps throttle game traffic gonna see if i can dig that out
Seems logical from what you're saying.
To be honest, there's too many theories into why MW3 & Black Ops are considerably "laggy" compared to previous COD Titles.
I remember chiming in your discussion into why COD Elite & Theater is causing increased latency issues but I do remember Foxy turning down this theory.
I'm sure we all wait for that magical patch that will wipe all these issues clean but there's more of a chance it will never happen.
interesting side note though Mark rubin also did an interview just after codxp where he was basically bitching that isps throttle game traffic gonna see if i can dig that out
I don't remember this interview. If you find the link to it, let me know.
vims1990 wrote:
Seems logical from what you're saying.
To be honest, there's too many theories into why MW3 & Black Ops are considerably "laggy" compared to previous COD Titles.
I remember chiming in your discussion into why COD Elite & Theater is causing increased latency issues but I do remember Foxy turning down this theory.
I'm sure we all wait for that magical patch that will wipe all these issues clean but there's more of a chance it will never happen.
interesting side note though Mark rubin also did an interview just after codxp where he was basically bitching that isps throttle game traffic gonna see if i can dig that out
I don't remember this interview. If you find the link to it, let me know.
still looking for it..
but nope in blops theatre DEF casused problems for the host in regards to bandwidth and processing, Vahn confirmed this a few months after i started harping on about it when he was explaining to someone why theatre turned off in groundwar
You could be the host with 1Mbit down 512kbps up if your ping was fast enough.
Eurogamer did a bit on lag yesterday take a look http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-lag-effect-psn-xbox-live-an alysis
MrBelter wrote:
You could be the host with 1Mbit down 512kbps up if your ping was fast enough.
Eurogamer did a bit on lag yesterday take a look http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-lag-effect-psn-xbox-live-an alysis
you'd be a very laggy host once the game starts as a rule of thumb a host really needs round their upload bandwidth to be higher than 700kbps, it has nothing to do with ping
their host selection is horrible... i pull host 80% with a 1mb upload...
i've cut it down using QoS and still pull host with even half that bandwidth..
maccabi wrote:
MrBelter wrote:
You could be the host with 1Mbit down 512kbps up if your ping was fast enough.
Eurogamer did a bit on lag yesterday take a look http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-lag-effect-psn-xbox-live-an alysis
you'd be a very laggy host once the game starts as a rule of thumb a host really needs round their upload bandwidth to be higher than 700kbps, it has nothing to do with ping
I sort of generalized my numbers. Upload is very important and many ISP's still keep upload rates minimal. My DSL ISP actually throttles upload rates(extra fee to lift that). Luckily for me, I don't get host because of it.
Another good question is how much bandwith is used in split screen(with 2 active players) I'm sure upload would grow...some.
70k/s actual up rates sounds about right though. 512kbps would be cutting it close with the divide by 10 rule. the slightest interferance could seriously mess with a game.
I'm familiar with that, having other computers in the house. Family visits or stay's over and the niece hops on myspace with lots of pics and embeded mp3's, gaming goes to crap. On one occasion we got into the hostfile and blocked several sites, to conserve bandwidth, and to get the twits to interact with family.
I think that is a large part of lag, in any game. People not regulating their network while gaming. Youtube, netflix, etc, they all chew through what's available.
I have been screaming this since BLOPS..YES!!!! ELITE is the problem
The past 2 games send more network traffic and it is due to ELITE only.
We need an option to turn off ELITE, Not send data to the ELITE severs.
Then and only then will you see these games improve
shadyB wrote:
I have been screaming this since BLOPS..YES!!!! ELITE is the problem
The past 2 games send more network traffic and it is due to ELITE only.
We need an option to turn off ELITE, Not send data to the ELITE severs.
Then and only then will you see these games improve
elite pulls its data from the demonware servers, i know this for a fact due to the numerous times i broke (into) elite in the beta and since it went live *cant say much more