Community: Message List - Broken lag compensation returns.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:26:57 GMT

Locking.

Arguments
False Reports
Inability to accept secondary discussion points of a complex system.
Creation and elaboration of conspiracy theories.

I will not delete the thread as it has some good back and forth that should remain public, but I can't let this one stay open for discussion. The above points are generated to quickly. Some more than others.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:55:16 GMT

Back on topic:

Tried a few matches today, still no change. The first FFA I get into everyone has a solid four bar connection (matchmaking works). I get instakilled three times in a row, by different players. No indication whatsoever that I'm taking damage. The enemies come from behind a corner and before I have a chance to do anything I'm dead. Left match -> host migration. Same exact experience I had in MW3. Same BS sync issues in every match, the worst when hosting.

I'm still waiting for dev input on this. I noticed on Twitter that Vahn was asking for footage of this issue, so at least they're not completely ignoring it. Sadly I don't have a capture card, but if any of you do it would be great if you sent him some footage of the broken lag compensation in action. Still, I'd like them to join the conversation and tell us if they're working on a fix and how it's going. The game is unplayable for me, can't really find any playable lobbies.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:20:54 GMT

dstr001 wrote:

Just wated to give an update to everyone; Maccabi, I decided to take your advice and called my ISP (Sky), they have something called a "gaming profile" which basically lowers your speed in turn for better latency, and I have to say, it worked! I still get occasional BS lag, but the game feels and plays smoother than it ever has, and I am actually playing better than I ever have done. Granted it hasnt compeltely sorted it, but I just wanted to thank you Mac, and apologise for doubting you.

If anyone else has sky, i encourage you to phone them and ask to get the gaming profile put on, it costs nothing to do, and they do it on their end; and for anyone not on sky, ask your ISP if they do anything similar, it will help, trust me.

theres 4 tiers to the gamer profile, if you're close to the next highest one they will sometimes put you on that but you may have errors, hence they drop your bandwidth to the next tier of the gamer profile so you dont have a lower quality connections.

unless they changed it recently the tiers are to best of my knowledge still

Base gamer - 2048 kbps. Upload - 416 kbps.

Mid gamer - 10240 kbps. Upload - 608 kbps.

Low Max gamer - Download - 10240 kbps. Upload 800 kbps.

High Max gamer - Download - 20000 kbps. Upload - 1216 kbps

as a footnote skys gaming profile differs from what other uk isps will tell you is "better" for gaming and will probably suggest you go onto fastpath (it lowers your ping slightly but comes with a whole heap of additional problems so I would be very wary of asking for this to be turned on and if you do decide to make sure your isp will allow you to change it back if it starts causing you problems (increase in dropped packets and reduction of line quality being the main ones.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:58:19 GMT

Just wated to give an update to everyone; Maccabi, I decided to take your advice and called my ISP (Sky), they have something called a "gaming profile" which basically lowers your speed in turn for better latency, and I have to say, it worked! I still get occasional BS lag, but the game feels and plays smoother than it ever has, and I am actually playing better than I ever have done. Granted it hasnt compeltely sorted it, but I just wanted to thank you Mac, and apologise for doubting you.

If anyone else has sky, i encourage you to phone them and ask to get the gaming profile put on, it costs nothing to do, and they do it on their end; and for anyone not on sky, ask your ISP if they do anything similar, it will help, trust me.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 16:34:13 GMT

I see your point about controlling who's in the lobby with you, and by not hosting you lower the chance of you not having the best ping. and also by playing people who have the same or lower ping than you, the so called lag comp wont delay you. like I said im no expert I just read other post and stuff on google and try to work it out so I can play so if im wrong sorry. but if im right it sounds a good idea trouble is as of now that's fine when works slow but when im busy I just want to turn on and play without thinking about what my connection is doing, that may sound a bit ignorant of me but when I have done a hard days work and I might only get an hour or 2 to play last thing I want is to be searching for good lobby's or inviting people to make a good lobby.

anyway's not is lost im now on my second play through of sp this time on veteran, and by what's been said there's a post on twitter saying there looking at matchmaking, just hope we don't have to wait too long and that its sort the problems out.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 16:27:27 GMT

I was on to this after day 2. You should see some of the ffa lobbys I get put in. Always multiple 2 plus kd players. Not fun for every game to be highly competitive. Funny thing is I'm still winning. I know those kind of kd are rare in ffa so I'm sure the pings between the players must be huge. Why it migrates host after each game.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:45:06 GMT

also Maccabi is correct, matchmaking is flawed, I hate it, it is set up in such a way that the longer you stay and win in the same lobby the harder it gets to keep winning, if you are in 1st place then it plops the worst players on your team the next round and a bunch of high KDs on the other side to balance teams, but opponents should be random not progressively more invincible each round till you are forced to lose.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:35:28 GMT

you're right simply not hosting may not help, if you are close to the host then you will still get a huge disadvantage, even when I don't have host I have bad games, you have to control who is in the lobby to control the lag comp, if you are next door to your isp provider for example like me it may give you host a lot, even if I don't get host my neighbor may get it, which is basically the same as me if we both have the same ISP provider. I have a 2ms ping for local games, so me and my neighbors will always get host every single game on best setting, but invite people on the opposite side of the US or from the UK to your lobby for example and one of them might get host instead of any of us, happens about 1 in 5 tries. I'm on the east side so my ping to the west US is from 20ms-120ms to home modems, but lots of people on the west coast have super fast pings to each other since they live nearer or share the same ISP hub at much less than 20ms using best settings, so lag comp in game code will basically let me see some west US players 0ms early but others I can see 100ms early maybe more or less depending on my line stability at that time of day, and theirs as well, the time difference also plays an important role since people on the east coast play 3 hours earlier than the west, so if you want to avoid lag comp on the east you should play 3 hours later than usual with someone in the lobby from the west coast that has a stable 10ms ping or less 24/7 so that some over that way will get host and you will get lag comp.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:10:42 GMT

Disconnected_ wrote:

Enough off-topic, kiddo. This thread is about the broken lag compensation. I didn't even read half of that wall of text and I'm sure I'm not missing out on anything important.

And THIS right here proves the point of my post most succinctly ,

/done

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:05:24 GMT

You are the kiddo here.....

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 12:38:41 GMT

*sighs

Disconnected_ wrote:

maccabi wrote:

simple answer is people mistake latency for some sort of neferious lag comp as everyone blames lag comp as the root cause of problems,

you get matched with players where theres a large than acceptable disparity between pings say people running 4-2 bars then its not "lag comp" its lag plain every day run of the mill everyone gets it on the internet lag.

Biggest problem this game has is and with the greatest of respect the lack of knowledge on thesubject of people complaining complaing about and their unwiullingness not to tow the company line of wahhhhhhhhh its lag comp kill it kill it
Actually, it's the other way around. Clueless so called "networking experts" think that their googled networking "knowledge" applies to this game.

The good people who have been here long enough know my credentials stack up and have been proven numerous times including the fact I hold a CCIE (feel free to use google to find out what that is as you so ironically suggested i do earlier) . Being brutally honest here sparky, This constant attacking of me isn't really doing you any favours , nor improving your reputation on these forums. It's actually getting boring and slightly repetative now.

See the difference between you and me is basically you whine alot and refuse to accept facts. Whereas I spend a great majority of my time helping people with issues, This is why you will see people cite me in threads and on the interwebz often. It's also why all these so called "fixes" for "lag comp" that keep appearing recently are all stuff that I have previously mentioned in my guides the "buffer bloat being the latest in a long line) ...guides which btw get featured and linked around the web, and hy my twitter feed and forum inbox is full of questions and requests for advice. It also probably explains why out of the two of us while you were watching various livestreams and reading about the game before it came out. I was at these events hanging out and getting my butt squeezed by Micheal rooker <-- truefact

Disconnected_ wrote:

If it was just plain old lag causing the sync issues, the ones having the issues would be players with high latency. Instead, people with low latencies and especially the host are having these sync issues. That's because of the broken lag compensation. Which is what IW devs already admitted is causing the problems in MW3. You've already been proven wrong by the devs.

That's interesting you keep saying this about mw3 I have yet to see you cite one reference to this.. what anyone on this forum does know in regards to mw3 was issues I highlighted in the hotfix thread (matchmaking, disparity between pings causing interpolation issues, geolocation irregularites ect) were later confirmed by IW and in fact a change was even made to matchmaking in regards to party host matchmaking which i (along with a few others capp00 for example )had been advocating for months in fact myself and capp00 were actually cited in a post from the devs when they said they were making this change...

You on the other hand just whined alot.

Disconnected_ wrote:

Just gtfo of this topic with your trolling already. You already stated that you don't have these lag compensation issues. so there's nothing for you in this topic. Though, I do get what you're doing.

You seem insistant I am trying to discredit your claims,and constantly accuse me of trolling the bit you still don;t get is i deal in facts not some half baked tinfoil hat assumption and theory based off a very minor amount of knowledge on the subject.It has never been my intention to "troll" the problem here is from where i'm sitting you simply just dont like being corrected and having your opinion questioned. So you reply with insults, accusations and assumptions that are easily discredited as i said earlir this really isn't doing you much in the way of actually getting people to take you seriously.

from a devs point of view someone posting "omg fix this game or omg fix lag comp" is about as helpful or useful as a constructive complaint /highlighting of an issue as a chocolate fireguard is practical.

Disconnected_ wrote:

Trying to discredit our claims because you really want to keep that lagvantage you're getting with your bad connection.

This actually made me laugh, feel free to look up my stats on Elite I assure you I am not getting some miracle advantage But then i play objective games for enjoyment not to stroke some epeen and measure my success and connectivity prowess based off my kdr.. I have as many know as I mention it alot two connections i can use for gaming I have a bog standard BT adsl line and a BT Business leased line.

So I can play at either end of the various tinfoil hat theories regarding "lag comp" *generic term.

As people are so intent with these numbers

My bog standard line is a 7 something down and .4 up adsl , as its a standard consumer grade line its subject to the same traffic management systems bt employ at peak times, and is run off a contention ratio of 50-1 which I pay round £20 a month for.

Gaming on this line in blops2 or any other cod for that matter i have no issues although in mw3 i would be matched with european players more which is due to an issue with mw3's geolocation database in regards to the leased Ip address. I am given from a pool of ip's BT hold as it runs off a dynami ip..

and before you now go AH HA!!! you have a crap connection lag comp works in your favour see I said you have a lagvantage which i do have to say was a good word i may use that myself obviously i will credit you for it (which would be basically you really dont understand what makes a good connection and what doesn't heres a free pro tip bandwidth does NOT equal a better connection )

My leased line is 100 down 100 up, its on a 1-1 contention ratio, has an static ip address and costs over a 100 times more than my bog stand line does a month (i'll leave to you work that one out and fyi my employer pays for the line as unlike you there are people out there who value my expertise) so erm yeah please don't ever try to pull the "best interwebz money can buy" line on me. You will come up severly wanting.

The only difference between the two lines for me in gaming experience is obviously on my leased line I pull host alot. I rarely use my leased line for gaming as I really dont need it as my standard line is more than adequate to handle the incredibly small amount of bandwidth these games use.Also its set up for my office upstairs and its a whole load of hassle to jiggle everything around) I will add in mw3 the differences between my lines were only in where i got matched to as stated earlier . As for ping another thing people seem obssessed with the difference between the two lines pinging the same server are really only a few 10's of miliseconds at most ever a figure so tiny it doesnt make one iota of difference. As I keep trying to explain to people once your packet leaves the safety of your own home network and isp everyones packets are the same, Even if you pay for "best money can buy internet" it makes no difference the interwebz does not sed stuff round with little post it notes saying please move this faster as the sender pays more.

Disconnected_ wrote:
You've already been proven wrong by the devs.

Since this game came out, I have maintained the same line that there is issues with the matchmaking and that the netcode (what people keep wrongly refering to as "lag comp" * generic term) is to blame.

In the week the game has been out so far we have had on these very forums and on youtube.

Someone who swore blind lag comp was broken,then to "prove" this admited to using software i am not allowed to mention on here to bypass the games own matchmaking in doing so then reported the game ran fine even on 3 bars - as I keep saying this alone proves the matchmaking is at fault as he didn't change any of the game code or more specifically the "netcode" ya'll keep blaming.

We have seen numerous poeple cite the "buffer bloat" "fix to lag comp" again this isn't changing any of the code its removing a piece of someones own network setup that was causing them problems that being thier subpar generic cheap assed isp given for free routers werent able to handle the packets the game produces. you only have to look at the buffer bloat video and the replies to the subject on this forum that this worked for quite alot of people.

oh and Treyarch themselves have stated publically they are working on MATCHMAKING issues. Note the bolded word there..

The team is hard at work right now on improving matchmaking issues. Both on the backend and in game with hot fixes and patches.

thats a direct quote from Alexander Conserva ( @alexconserva) the lead multiplayer programmer at Treyarch on twitter not 8 hrs ago.

Now as we are on consoles Title updates unlike on pc arent an instant thing as they need to be certified by the 1st party platforms, Hotfixes can be applied instantly. But with matchmaking sometimes you have to go through the cert process ) so as others have said as with all CoD games theres always a few issues with matchmaking and the game on release which usually get sorted very quickly once the devs have had a chance to analyse the data they collated and can dial in settings .

while it's commendable and slightly emabassing for us to see that you insist on constantly replying to any thread that mentions lag or lag comp ect and continually seek to discredit myself and others .The simple plain undeniable fact is if you stopped for a second got off your high horse you wouldn't constantly end up looking like you facepalmed a box of eggs.

while you maintian i am dismissive of peoples issues, the complete opposite is actually true and yes whilst myself do not suffer any of the issues people claim to the simple fact is (whether you want to accept it or not) is the majority of these issues have absolutely nothing to do with "lag comp" *generic term and can be easily explained by other things..matchmaking own equipment ect. The problem is people like yourself have been throwing around the "wahhhhhh lag comp" card for so long on the cod forums and general interwebz that the phrase has stuck as the be all and end all reason people general die, suck, lose gun fights, dont finish a game with a 10/1 kdr , get hit makers, aim for crap, But dont feel bad it's nothing new gamers have been blaming lag since the first days of lanning up doom . Classic example of what i mean yesterday someone made a post on these forums complain that the game and lag comp needed to be fixed as they lagged when playing with thier friends across the atlantic (us to uk) I mean seriously this is what happens when people start whining about lag comp and why people like myself come into posts to correct and try to educate them when needed.(although at times its like banging my head against a brick wall)

You may know free feel to attempt to pull this post apart, I'll go back to ignoring you again.Truth be told i only replied as people like yourself have a very negative effect on the forums as misinformation and accusations gain wieght and credence by repeated usage of them and some stuff just needs to be shut down . By addressing your latest volley of accusations i have given people the option to decide out of the two of us whose opinion and input is more useful and beneficial . x x x x

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 12:56:04 GMT

Enough off-topic, kiddo. This thread is about the broken lag compensation. I didn't even read half of that wall of text and I'm sure I'm not missing out on anything important.

Treyarch is working on several things. Obviously they're working on the matchmaking issues alot of people have been experiencing. Before the patch matchmaking stopped working completely for me and I've read that people are still having similar issues with it post-patch, so that's obviously what he was referring to.

Again, if it was matchmaking that was broken, lobbies would be full of 1-2 bar people. That's not the case. I have yet to see a lobby where someone has 2 bars or less. The majority always has 4 bars, alot of the time everyone does. Players are being matchmade properly, hence the low pings.

The problem is the broken netcode. In MW2 people with high latencies (for example 200ms) didn't cause any sync issues. Such people and the host had an equal chance in a gun fight against each other. No one had an advantage.

The netcode in BO2 can't handle even the slightest variance in latency properly, it seems. Even four bars players (0-100ms latency) are completely out of sync with each other.

maccabi wrote:

while it's commendable and slightly emabassing for us to see that you insist on constantly replying to any thread that mentions lag or lag comp ect and continually seek to discredit myself and others

OH THE IRONY.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 12:44:03 GMT

NEVER LEAVE THIS PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 12:38:29 GMT

I'm not a fanboy, If you like BF3 thats really good for you But I Like Black ops 2

Black ops 2 is really different from any other CoD, I Play Call of duty thats my game....

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:49:48 GMT

renovartio if its our b grade connection that's getting 4 bar connections in just about every game but geting owned by people with 3-2 bars hows that then. them coming with higher ping have a better connection than us. sure that sound right.

and just out of interest what do you think b grade connection is. as its been said its not how much bandwidth you have its the pings you get and if 4 bars is the best connection to the lobby then how much better can you get it.

now im no expert and people say its not lag comp and so on but on reading what lag comp is, its sound like what's happening to me. delay being added to me to match the people with higher pings (3-2bar connection).

just an idea for you, if you have no problems with the game go play it

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 04:54:44 GMT

Got in a few god mode matches tonight.(about 3 good out of 20) Felt bad for the poor chaps that couldnt get off a shot.(naah it felt great returning the favor) Either way somethings gotta be done its completely random and bars dont tell you anything.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 04:41:14 GMT

this game is the biggest pile of crap ok fanboy lag lag tell me why bullets register only half the time these retards cant make a game did u not notice it looks nearly the same as all the other cod crap games.BATTLEFIELD NOW THATS A REAL GAME U FANBOY NOT THIS DIFF NAME SAME GAME PISE OF CRAP

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 04:24:55 GMT

there are 2 things that you can do to fix lag, one is set your search preferences to best and the other is do a handstand count to a million and make sure you know what ur talking about, ive had no problem with lag and thats because treyarch know what there doing and i have good internet connection myself, consider for a second that mabye, just mabye your horrible B grade internet needs an upgrade from when it was installed and that these issues are not the fault of the company who created this almost perfect game.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 21 Nov 2012 02:45:51 GMT

I'm dealing with the same problem. I haven't played a Call of Duty since World at War and for the first few days I thought I was just bad, or not used to the hitboxes. It always seemed weird that I could stab a dude in the back three times, and he wouldn't die. Or that I could shoot a guy point blank several times and have him turn around and instant kill me. Then I began noticing that I was regularly dying through walls, so that is when I really started to watch the kill cam and about 80% of the time I die the killcam shows something entirely different than what was happening on my screen. Often times when I think I am shooting my opponent point blank in the chest, the killcam reveals that I wasn't even firing at him. I think this game would be absolutely awesome without the lag compensation, but to be 100% honest I'm going to go play a F2P shooter over this crap because it's at least competitive.

Fortunately Planetside 2 came out today.

Re: Broken lag compensation returns.

donotreply@activision.com — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:29:32 GMT

your lucky that just not hosting works for you but it don't make much difference for me, and when most games i go in im 4 bars hosting or not, that tells me that im getting the best connection to that lobby, but that's the problem, people with 3 bars or less will always win with all the usual bs like instant death me getting loads of hitmakers and so on, but if there on 3 or less bars then there ping as goto be higher than mine other wise they would be on 4 bars same as me. thanks for trying to help but just not hosting wont work for all