Community: Message List - MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 03:55:21 GMT

FALSE: Markman PRO canNOT see the name over Assassin Pro users so using Markman Pro against Assassin Pro is useless

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 22 Jul 2012 20:36:07 GMT

PKP should do 49 damage at ALL ranges, making it better to use to shoot down killstreaks and finish off damaged opponents easier while being a 3HK (2HK if ones a headshot and other is anywhere else) Reduce Vertical Recoil SLIGHTLY.

AA-12 should do 18-8 instead of 17-8 so its a 4 pellet kill at point blank range with Damage on.

EDIT: Actually, make the AA-12 do 20-10, this would make it very/more balanced according to my tests and calculation.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 03:49:29 GMT

GET RID OF SITREP PRO!!!! IT IS WAY OVERPOWERED AND ALL PEOPLE DO WITH IT IS CAMP AND BE SOUNDWHORES WITH IT...it would be alright but it OVER POWERS DEAD SILENCE!....and making peoples footsteps louder is stupid for sitrep pro anyways

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:25:13 GMT

The main problem in MW3 is that they added stopping power on HALF the weapons but only half-way on half of those:
(Number of hits to kill is correct for all weapons, but I may switch 42 and 45 and 49 damage for some weapons, but all those damage values are interchangable for all purposes; 42, 45 and 49 damage ALL helps with headshot multipliers reaching 100 in two hits with one headshot and one hit anywhere else)

Added "stopping power" damage:

ACR..: 30-20 --> 45-30 (Full)

G36C: 30-20 --> 42-28 (Full)

SCAR-L: 30-20 -> 35-20 (Half)
M4.......: 30-20 -> 42-20 (Half)

CM901.: 40-30 -> 49-25 (None / long range nerf)
AK47...: 40-30 -> 49-25 (None / long range nerf)

Mk14....: 50-40 -> 75-49 (Half)

M16......: 40-30 -> 49-25 (None / long range nerf)

Type-95.: 40-30 -> 50-20 (Half / long range nerf)

PP90M1: 30-20 -> 42-17 (Half / long range nerf)

P90.......: 30-20 --> 42-20 (Half)
MP5......: 40-20 --> 49-20 (None)
UMP......: 40-35 --> 49-17 (None / Long range nerf)

MP7......: 30-20 --> 42-20 (Half)

...

Thus there are TWO options for instant CoD4 level ++ balance:

(M16 has been nerfed to 780 RPM -- my wet dream from CoD4 come true! -- the ONLY overpowered weapon from that game!)

1: Add stopping power to ALL weapons -- BUT have the silencer reduce damage one tier to balance out the fact that stopping power isn't a perk, making stealth sacrifice "stopping power" like they should.

Then reduce the recoil of CM901 slightly, or give it better range than AK47.

2: Nerf all weapons to non-stopping power levels.

Then reduce the recoil of CM901 slightly, or give it better range than AK47.
Then give M16 more range.
Then add one extra spare magazine to AA12.

I would prefer the first option.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 05:10:26 GMT

Precision Airstrike - Slightly increase blast radius.

Attack Helicopter - Give a flare.

AH-6 Overwatch - Give a flare.

Strafe Run - Give 1 flare universally for all 5 choppers.

Assault Drone - Slightly increase damage and movement speed.

Pave Low - Give additional flare.

AC130 - Increase usage time from 40 to 60 seconds.

Assault Juggernaut - Slightly increase movement speed. Make it NOT show up on enemy radar unless firing.

Osprey Gunner - Give additional flare.

Make Scavenger refill all lethal equipment.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 04:29:46 GMT

I must say that using scavenger to replentish tactical grenades would IMO be a big mistake, the games are already Flashfests on these small maps as it is.....But i do like alot of your ideas

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 02:24:02 GMT

Like a lot of these, very good suggestions in here. If any devs are checking this thread, READ this =)

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 02:22:56 GMT

Well you've basically just made it clear that you don't really care about balance in this game, so I don't really know why you are posting in a thread about balancing the game.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 08:25:32 GMT

If i did not mention a weapon it is because I agree with you

Assault rifles:

M16a4 - swap damage with type 95 so it'll do 55-25, the 55 damage dropping off at around 25 meters.

Type 95 - Make it do 49-25, the 49 damage dropping off at around 30-35 ish meters.

Acr 6.8 - Increase its horizontal recoil.

Mk14 - Leave alone.

SMG's:

UMP .45 - Increased minimun damage to 20.

MP5 - Decreased horizontal recoil.

PP90M1 - Leave alone.

MP7 - Increased vertical recoil.

LMG's:

L86 - No change.

MG36 - Decreased horizontal recoil.

PKP Pecheneg - Overall decreased recoil.

Mk46 - No change

M60e4 - make it do 55-35, 55 dropping off at 30 meters.

Shotgun's:

Ksg-12 - Change damage to 36-15.

Usas-12 - Increase minimun damage to 7.

Spas - Change damage to 36-14

AA-12 - Increased range and damage, damage drop off starting a 7 meters and ending at 13 meters. Damage buffed to 18-8.

Striker - No change.

Model - Change damage to 40-20.

Sniper's:

Barret .50 cal - fire capped at 500 rpm.

Dragunov - Was already buff so yeah...

Machine Pistols:

Fmg9 - change the damage to 33-19

Scorpion - Recoil reduction by 30-40%

G18 - Change damage to 42-20 & recoil reduction by 20%

Akimbo MP's takes 1 extra shot to kill.

Handgun's:

Usp .45 - Minimun damage buffed to 20

P99 - Minimun damage buffed to 20.

MP412 - Minimun damage buffed to 25

Five seven - minimun damage buffed to 20

Magnum - minimun damage buffed to 25

Desert eagle - Reduced recoil.

Perks:

Marksman - It needs a counter so yeah...

Assassin - Move invisibility from thermal to Blind eye. Remember Cuav is support so you know how easily they could be abused.

Killstreaks

- Assault drone is pretty crap so health buff to 700 - 1000 maybe?

- 3 flares for the osprey gunner.

- Care package is suppose to be any random killstreak so no.

- Escort Airdrops are also random so as BS as it is just suck it up.

- Buff Assault Juggernauts health to 1500 - 1750.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 01:43:12 GMT

The OG is nothing in this game. It is not really that good. I laugh every time someone gets one, since I use BE and AS so I just keep moving with out caring about it being up. The care package is meant to unbalance the game play. It is not about the game being balanced and fair or about it being competitive. Many of the things in this game are designed too unbalance play and make it chaotic and more random. So no they do not need to remove any of the KSR above 12 from it just because you feel it is cheap.

Basically you just hate the support package because you have probably had the upper ksr ruin your own ks before.

Its not a charity package just because you dont like it and it allows players to have a chance to use upper ksr or psr that they may not normaly ever use. And that was the whole desgin of it for this game and the psr and how they work. To take away the emphasis that so many made about ksr in the past requiring skill to get them. This game was meant for the causal players not the hardcore wannabe elite pro skillzed players.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:26:17 GMT

WTF are you talking about? "The whole point of the care package is to give players that random chance to get ANY ksr/psr in the game." What your saying is that the point of the care package is to be a crutch for bad players to get a cheap advantage. Which is true. Last time I checked, anytime there is a crutch in something that is supposed to a balanced, fair, competitive multiplayer experience, that's a bad thing, and it usually makes it NOT a competitive multiplayer experience.

I would be fine with the charity package yeilding any possible KSR if it required a 6 killstreak. 4 is just pure bullsh*t, because charity packages don't even drop ammo anymore. So literally the ONLY thing you can get that takes less kills that the charity package is a UAV. Everything else is basically an unfair shortcut. There honestly should be about a 50% chance that the charity package yields a ksr lower than the charity package, and a 50% chance that it yields something higher. An Osprey Gunner can cripple an enemy team and it's extremely hard to obtain, as it should be. Why should some scrub with hardline be able to cripple an entire enemy team just because he got a free dom flag at the beginning of the game, destroyed a SAM Turret, and got 2 assists? Assault Juggs can also dominate an enemy team, and AC-130s/Pavelows can do some hefty damage as well. With Ospreys, Juggs, AC-130s, and Pavelows, I think 6 or 7 kills is fair for a care package. But IW is not going to change the amount of kills required, so I'll settle for removing any ksr above 12 from the charity package.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 01:08:37 GMT

Guns: M16A4: Increase the fire rate a little bit, bring it to about 450 RPM, or increase the distance it takes before damage drop off. The gun has poor range compared to the Type 95, so I say the M16 deserves a little bit of a buff to bring it in line so it's not outclassed.

MP7: Simple, increase the recoil a bit! This gun can hit a dime from across the map with a constant stream of bullets, and outclasses a lot of the SMGs in performance, bar the P90.

ACR: Same deal as above, increase the recoil of the ACR so it doesn't outperform some of the other ARs.

MP5: The stats need to be buffed up a little bit on this gun. The recoil should be lowered, not a lot, but just a little bit so it can stand a chance with the P90. It also needs to have a range boost, and what I mean is bring it up to at least somewhat like it was in CoD4 (it had a range of 18m-25m for damage drop off)

AA-12: I understand this guns role is meant to be a beast at close range, but at least give the gun a little bit of a damage buff similar to how the SPAS-12 was buffed.

Model 1887: Increase to 9 pellets

FMG9: When using akimbo, increase the crosshair size a little more then what it is now, so Steady Aim is an absolute must when using akimbo.

Buff Marksman so it's not completely useless against many of the players in the community: Have Marksman counter Assassin Pro. Up to a certain distance, Marksman should counter Assassin Pro and have players name pop up. At longer ranges, sure, Assassin will counter Marksman, but I think that Marksman should be a hard counter to Assassin Pro to some extent. I know Recon counters it too, but that's a relatively uncommon perk compared to stuff like Scavenger and Sleight of Hand. Idk, it's my personal views and open to debate on these ideas, so constructive criticism and discussion is welcome.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:53:46 GMT

I noticed how you thought the air ksr needed more flares. that is not true ksr should not be too hard to shoot down. there are not meant to be gurantees for kills no matter how many kills you had to get for them. they are at best a chance to get kills and that is all they should be.

You also do not want care packages to drop the high end ksr or psr this just proves that you do not feel it is fair that someone can have a chance of having them with out having to earn them the normal way. The whole point of the care package is to give players that random chance to get ANY ksr/psr in the game. To remove one or two from what it can drop would just be ridiculous for them to do.

These wo suggestions you made make it where you are trying to put more emphasis on skill and gun play even when you said leave skill out of the debate.

A fair or balanced ksr/psr would not be to remove antying from the care package just because some do not like that a noob or somone that was not being a tryhard could get a high end ksr/psr in the game.

I can agree thought that the emp is too long, should be 30 seconds and not cause the emp affect to your own team. Plus I think they need a cool down time that after one is called in another can not be called for at least 30 seconds, to prevent emp chaining.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:53:21 GMT

You don't think the G18 akimbo needs to be un-nerfed? It already suffers from low mag size, low range and damage, and high recoil. I never remember anyone saying the G18 akimbo was OP. The UMP gets low minimun damage and low RoF for only around a 15% higher range then the P90. I see now reason why the UMP should take six shots to kill at max range while the MP7 and P90 take only five shots. It was complained about in mw2 and they over-nerfed it in mw3 to avoid critism. It could also use slightly more range. The L86 is not OP when compared to all the weapons in the game. The other LMGs should be brought up to it instead of it being brought down to the others.

As for the ACR, it was not that I disagree about decreasing its mag size, but its just something I just can't realistically see the devs doing. And I really disagree about nerfing either of the juggs. The assualt juggernaut could really use a buff. Many of the explosives could also use a buff. Just the other OP things in mw2 like shotguns, UMP and M16, the over nerfed explosives to avoid critism.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 11 Jul 2012 02:10:57 GMT

To reduce the ACR's clip size would be ridiculous. Sure its over powered, but the real gun holds 30 bullets. To take that away would reduce the realism of the guns power

MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 20:13:13 GMT

Alright, so I did one of these threads a while ago, but gave up because the devs didn't care and nobody important was reading the feedback. Now all of the sudden in the last 2 months it seems like the IW devs care again and Mark Rubin has said multiple times that within the next few weeks they will be doing a weapons and pointstreaks "sweep" - meaning they are going to be tweaking/rebalancing many weapons and pointstreaks. I'd like to trust them in coming up with truly balanced weapon stats but I can't after MW2's weapon balance and the way MW3's weapon balance still is right now, because I have no idea how any dev ever thought the MP7, ACR 6.8, or Type 95 were at all balanced in any way. So let's get our community feedback in to help them. Post your suggestions in this thread about what guns you think are either overpowered or underpowered and include your suggestion for how to make the gun balance, and most importantly state your REASON for why you think your suggested changes would make the gun balanced. Don't just say "X is OP, because I said so. Fix it." Nobody will listen to you. Don't forget to also tweet your weapon balance suggestions to @IWMarkRubin, @Teanah, and @Candyslexia.

I've played FPS games for a very long time and I have a very good sense for balance. I often realize that certain things are OP/UP a while before the broader community realizes it and starts begging for nerfs/buffs. When I take one look at the weapon stats and say "X is going to get nerfed," chances are it really will get nerfed somewhere down the road. I've studied every stat there is to study in MW3 and I know all the numbers behind every gun, perk, and poinstreak like the back of my hand. So I've taken the time to write up a MW3 weapon balance draft, and I've put a ton of thought into it. Here it is:

Assault Rifles:

M4A1: Increase range from 800-1400 to 1000-1500. This makes it more competitive with the SCAR-L.

SCAR-L: No change.

CM901: Increase min damage to 30 (for hardcore), increase range from 800-1900 to 1000-1900.

AK-47: Increase min damage to 30.

G36C: No change.

ACR 6.8: Reduce mag size from 30 to 20. Change damage from 45-30 to 35-25 (increase headshot multiplier to 1.5x to retain 2 headshot kill).

The ACR is currently the most dominant assault rifle, clearly outclassing all others except the Type 95, which is why it needs so many changes. Currently it takes the exact same number of bullets to kill as the CM901 and AK-47 (3-4) while ALSO having much less recoil, a higher fire rate, and faster reload, and having almost the same 3-hit-kill range. With the new damage, it will still take 3-4 shots but have a slightly smaller 3-hit-kill range. A 20 round mag will make it fit the role of the MW2 SCAR-H: a powerful, low recoil/long range weapon balanced with a moderate fire rate and small magazine. It will also no longer be a 1 shot kill at all ranges in hardcore, leaving that as a special trait to the AK-47, CM901, and unsilenced M16A4.

Type 95 option 1: Reduce max damage to 50, change range from 800-2000 to 500-2000 and reduce fire rate to 925 rpm. Also increase hip-fire spread from 4 - 7 to 5 - 7. This retains the 2 shot kill potential but the 2 hit kill range is much shorter, and it is no longer a make-shift shotgun with the hip-fire spread.

Type 95 option 2: Change damage from 55-20 to 49-25 with 800-1500 range and 925 rpm fire rate. Also increase hip-fire spread from 4 - 7 to 5 - 7.

* Type 95 is a tough one to balance. Not sure either of these suggestions are that great, but the bottom line is that the Type 95 needs some sort of nerf.

M16A4: Change damage to a flat 34 across all ranges. Give the silenced version 34-25 damage with 1000-2000 range (these would be the actual ranges when silenced, not pre-modified ranges).

Mk14: Slightly increase vertical recoil.

FAD: Increase range from 800 - 1000 to 1100 - 1300.

SMGs:

MP5: Reduce horizontal recoil to 65 left, 55 right.

UMP45: No change.

PP90M1: Increase horizontal recoil to 75 each direction, increase vertical recoil to 65 also. Decrease center speed to 1550. Normalize rapid fire effect to 25% like other SMGs. Keeps it still extremely dominant in close range, but difficult to use at mid-long range.

P90: No change.

PM-9: Reduce visual recoil (not viewkick). Reduce reload time to 1.8 seconds. Keep rapid fire effect at 33%. Possibly improve hip-fire from 3 - 5 to 2.5 - 4.5 (may be a bit much).

MP7: Reduce min damage from 20 to 17, slightly increase vertical recoil from 45 to 50.

LMGs:

L86 LSW: Reduce min damage from 38 to 30. It took 1 more bullet at long range than any other LMG pre-patch, it should be the same post-patch to make sure the MG36 and MK46 are still useful.

All other LMGs: No change.

Machine Pistols:

FMG9: Reduce damage from 40-20 to 30-17. It currently makes the other 3 machine pistols pointless, having the best damage profile, highest RPM, and largest magazine.

MP9: No change.

Skorpion: Reduce vertical recoil 15-20%.

G18: Increase min damage from 17 to 20.

All machine pistols: Akimbo should GREATLY increase the hip-fire spread on ALL of them, similar to PP2000 akimbo hip-fire in MW2.

Shotguns:

USAS-12: No change.

AA-12: Increase damage per pellet to 17-8. Increase starting ammo.

Spas-12: Increase damage per pellet to 35-15.

Model 1887: Increase damage per pellet to 40-20.

Striker: Reduce fire rate to 300 rpm.

KSG-12: No change.

Perks:

Extreme conditioning: 3x sprint instead of 2x.

Scavenger: always replenish tactical grenades, lethal thrown grenades, and anti-air launchers

Blast Shield: Increase explosive resistance from 0.55x to 0.35x.

Assassin: Remove immunities to CUAV and EMP (move those over to Blind Eye Pro) and enable Marksman PRO to see red names above Assassin Pro users.

Pointstreaks:

Stealth Bomber: Decrease blast radius and damage of bombs

Strafe Run: Give all 5 helicopters 1 or 2 flares each, but all 5 should dump flares at the same time (only burns 1 or 2 rockets total).

Reaper: Decrease number of missiles to 10.

Attack Helicopter: Give it 1 flare.

Pavelow: Add one more flare.

Recon Juggernaut: Decrease total health.

Care package: Remove Osprey Gunner and Assault Juggernaut.

EMP: Reduce duration to 30 sec.

Ballistic Vests: Lower the health provided in HC modes to something more proportional to starting health.

Emergency Airdrop: Should not drop EMPs or Recon Juggernauts

Osprey Gunner: Needs at least 1 more flare, if not 2 more.

Equipment:

Frag grenades: Increase blast radius and also slightly increase maximum damage to create a bigger lethal range

*more to come in this section

I encourage you to leave your own feedback below, but if you don't know the numbers and statistics and variables behind the weapons in MW3 I highly suggest you take a look at the stats and learn them for yourself first so that you can craft better suggestions for the developers. You can find more statistics than you know what to do with here: http://symthic.com/mw3charts.php and http://denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=323 5. If you actually talk about very specific adjustments to specific variables like I did in my draft, they are more likely to listen to you. If you think any of my suggestions are too extreme, feel free to say so and if anyone has better ideas than mine (specifically the Type 95) I will updated the OP with your suggestion and give you credit for it. Also, if you have any questions about any gun, perk, or pointstreak, just ask me. I bet you anything I know the answer.

I will be moderating this thread and updating it daily. ALL posts must obey the following rules, and any that don't will be reported:

1. Debate is okay, starting a flame war isn't. If you disagree with someone, then you can state your disagreement in a mature, respectful, and intelligent manner. Anything along the lines of "No, this gun is fine and shouldn't be nerfed because you just suck and you need to get better and stop crying" will be reported without question. You think someone has a bad suggestion? Come back with a better suggestion, referencing the real weapon statistics (not the ones you pull out of your arse) and explaining WHY you believe your suggested changes to the weapon's statistics make better sense. Got it? If you don't, too bad.

2. Leave skill OUT of the debate. Skill has NOTHING to do with weapon balance. At all. If you think it does, you don't even understand the concept of weapon balance in the first place. Weapons are balanced in an attempted to make your score accurately represent your skill level, not make up for your lack of it. Two players with the same skill level playing with the same play style should not have drastically different scores because one of them uses an ACR and the other uses an M4A1. Guns should be statistically equivalent with each other so that a player can choose essentially any weapon in the game and get about the same score, with the only thing affecting his score being his skill level, not his gun selection. If one gun is always the superior choice because it gives you better scores, what is the point of having any of the others in the game at all?

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:43:23 GMT

"It has a flare, its hard to shoot down with bullets" - exactly. That, combined with 14 deadly missles for only a 9 pointstreak, is a little bit much, and makse the Strafe Run and AH-6 kinda obsolete. It just needs a little nerf in some way, whether that be less rockets or taking away its flare.

As for the PM-9, it has the highest recoil of any primary gun in the whole game (excluding Rapid Fire LMGs). And I'm not talking about a huge recoil reduction, just a moderate one to make it useable. It has two different kinds of recoil, combined. 1. Viewkick (your whole screen/point-of-view bouncing aorund) and 2. Gunkick (the gun itself jumping around your screen). I'm only talking about reducing Gunkick and leaving Viewkick alone, so you can actually see what you are aiming it. It would still be the highest recoil SMG.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:36:44 GMT

Of course you don't. But it seems you are in the minority where that is concerned. The developers lack of balls to nerf things that are OP and actually require some effort/skill to get a good score instead of leaning on crutches is what makes IW games so disrespectable to many serious FPS players.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:08:43 GMT

I don't think anything should be nerfed.

Re: MW3 Weapon/Poinstreak/Perk Balance Community Feedback thread

donotreply@activision.com — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 01:07:48 GMT

Akimbo weapons don't need to be stronger. Any of them. The FMG9 would not be horrible, it still has a huge 36 round mag and the highest RoF of all machine pistols, second highest overall only just slower than the PM-9. The UMP is a monster. It takes 6 shots at range because it has the longest 3-hit-kill range of all SMGs and has very controllable recoil. And what is wrong with making the L86 take one more shot at extreme ranges? It always took one more shot than all other LMGs at long range before the LMG buff. It currently makes the MK46 and MG36 pointless. And the ACR mag size to 20 is the perfect nerf for that gun. If you dont like that idea you are probably upset you wouldn't be able to lean on it as a crutch anymore, because I don't know how you can't see that the ACR is blatantly OP.

The one thing I will agree on is the MP5. Could use a range buff, but then it is beginning to infringe on the UMP's niche. So the UMP's range would have to be increased also, and it's already pretty huge for an SMG. I'd rather just see the MP5 recoil reduced to be less than the P90s.