Community: Message List - Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 16:29:54 GMT

lil_lisa_w wrote:

I say keep the 3 kill and your out system. However, I beleive if you are in a full party of 6 with your friends the system should be nullified. When your playing with your whole group of friends your never gonna intionally shoot them. So make it so noone can get kick if you have 6 in the party

I agree with that...

... not sure if it's possible to do.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:08:50 GMT

I say keep the 3 kill and your out system. However, I beleive if you are in a full party of 6 with your friends the system should be nullified. When your playing with your whole group of friends your never gonna intionally shoot them. So make it so noone can get kick if you have 6 in the party

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 05 Sep 2012 05:05:59 GMT

So... still no #MOARhardcore info.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:16:28 GMT

nicedrewishfela wrote:

The caveat of the Black Ops system was the fact that the "Host Player" could not be kicked.

I would like to see these changes to the system, however.
"Host Player" is subject to being kicked as well. If the host TKs 3 times, put us in a Host Migration and pick the next best connection, while getting rid of the offender.

As I was playing HC last night, this is the exact same thing that I was telling myself. The host player was Team Killing their whole team and even though it was on the opposite team, it makes the game boring for everyone. All we could do is get the easy win with barely any kills.

I tweeted to Vahn last night but received no answer since I am sure he is crazy busy with the MP trailer but I would love for Treyarch to enforce a "Host Migration" if the host is the one doing the team killing.

Also, I am sure they can track the team killers just the same way they track all of the other kills With this data alone, it should be easy to see who does it (TK"S) on a regular, compared to those that do it by accident and bans should be applied appropriately.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 12 May 2012 04:04:12 GMT

I perfer bo to mw3, but i think the first 30 seconds should be ricochet then after 3 tk it should just be a longer respawn.

I am a little torn about the killstreaks counting because on one hand it is hardcore and you should be a little more careful (on core if there in your spawn you can drop a b52 with no worry to yourself), but then there are those guys that insisted on rushing there spawn that dont listen to call outs and need to run right into your fire.

I think there needs to be something revamped on that front.

I do like the stat idea though.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Fri, 11 May 2012 22:50:56 GMT

Yeah, I am not firm on #3 either, just thinking of ways to keep parties together as it can sometimes be difficult to re-form them once a player has been kicked. Its a tricky situation, I know I've been on teams of six where we communicate where to drop a Killstreak, which backfires because of course we then spawn in that area getting one teammate kicked. It really sucks when you get into a good lobby, and have to back out and find another one.

My thinking on #2 is just to avoid the spawn deaths. I have been in games where the spawn deaths set the tone for the match, and make it near impossible for that team to come back as the other team is able to set up in the time it takes half the team to re-spawn. Thanks for the feedback!

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 10 May 2012 15:15:16 GMT

nicedrewishfela wrote:

Going to throw my two cents in here.

I am a Hardcore only player, have been since MW2 and have gone back to COD4 and W@W to play as well, so have seen the different variations and have enjoyed reading the discussion on this Forum thus far.

The early CoD games were rough with Hardcore. They were great fun to play, until you got the TKing jerk on your team. They would run roughshod on your team and there was absolutely no recourse other than killing them yourself, earning the long respawn and the points off. There was no reporting system, I would usually do it through XBL.

Black Ops, to me, was the best so far. The Three Team Kills and kick system was the best as far as I was concerned. It kept the integrity of Hardcore, meaning that you couldn't just run around blindly shooting anyone in sight. You had to be aware of your teammates at all times, be aware of where you are shooting or tossing a 'Nade, and Communicate killstreaks such as Bombers or Napalm strikes. (Oh no! I used the "C" word). I got kicked a time or two, usually just bad luck or teammates spawning at inopportune times, but overall it wasn't a huge issue for me. The caveat of the Black Ops system was the fact that the "Host Player" could not be kicked. I played in some lobbies where the host knew this and TK'd with no repercussions. That was the biggest problem I faced in Hardcore on BlOps

MW3 was a hot mess at first. It was MW2 all over again with idiot team killers. Then... they put in Ricochet. My biggest issue with Ricochet is that I play Hardcore for the "reality" of it. I don't feel like I should be able to strafe through my teammates like in Core, its comical. I felt that the BlOps system encouraged better communication and really forced conscientious players to be aware at all times. Now, there is absolutely no regard for teammates. Players just run into firefights not caring, knowing that it will be their teammates who get killed, not them. Its made HC players as selfish as I have seen Core players be and taken away from the team aspect. For example, on Village my team spawned at the Cave. Checked my map, had all our dots at the cave or the well, and some enemy players in the village. I advised 3 times, "I am dropping my Airstrike on the village, stay away from the village for a second". I proceeded to drop it, and watched a "teammate" run into the explosions on purpose, getting me killed. Been on teams where one player tried blocking the rest of us into corners or took out our equipment, and there is no recourse. To sum up, I can't stand ricochet, it takes away from the reason I play HC to begin with. If they want to offer a HC Ricochet mode for those who want it, more power to em, or keep it on SnD, thats fine, but keep it out of HC.

My ideas for BlOps- Keep the 3 kill and kick system. I have thrown around the idea of a vote and I see too many cases where it may be abused. Honest players would use it the right way, but come on, we know this community too well. 3 kills, to me, is a fair amount. It happens to the best of players, things happen. More than that, well you just had a really bad game, were too careless, or you are a loser intentional Team Killer. I would like to see these changes to the system, however.
"Host Player" is subject to being kicked as well. If the host TKs 3 times, put us in a Host Migration and pick the next best connection, while getting rid of the offender.
Ricochet at initial spawn point for 30 seconds. This keeps someone from stabbing teammates in the back, shooting their team, firing an RPG, or other d-baggery. Allows time for the team to spread out and get away from anyone with bad intentions.
If you are in a Party when you enter the match and get kicked, you stay in the lobby as a spectator. Your team plays the rest of the match one player down unless you decide to quit and free up the slot. Its hard enough connecting with Friends, it always sucked when one got kicked and we had to back out of a lobby to pick them back up.
Add a "Team Killing" entry into the report system.
Does not count as a death for the teammate you killed, and if that teammate was on a killstreak, that streak continues. Instead, you lose points.

As for the issue of teammates blocking other teammates into corners... thats a tricky one for me. You have to keep the players solid, but because of that people exploit by blocking passages or teammates against walls or in corners. Beyond killing the offender, how do we handle that?

Point 3 makes sense only when it is a full party of 6... otherwise they get the boot. Not a huge fan of point 2 but it's also not a big deal if it's there.

I'm with the rest.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 10 May 2012 05:30:19 GMT

nicedrewishfela wrote:

My issue with #3... Don't give a team-killing idiot Ricochet (For accidental or careless team killers it would actually not be such a bad idea, but the intentional team killer it could be a disaster). The intentional team killer is out to infuriate others and make their game miserable. If allowed to stay in the match, they can create all sorts of havok like pinning others into corners, destroying equipment, or even just giving away teammate positions through blind fire and other shenanigans. Better to kick them.

You named the problem in your first sentence. There is no way to differentiate between an intentional and purposeful team killer. The benefit of turning their game into Ricochet would be that they would stop teamkilling and most likely leave on their own. To have them not get kicked would allow accidental team killers to remain on their team and not have to make the whole team back out and research for a lobby. Some peole have said that they should remain as a spectator in the lobby. This sounds good, but would still be a way for intentional team killer sto screw with the team by putting them at a disadvantage.

The only time I have ever been pinned in a corner was when I stopped a booster on my team. It really is not an issue. As far as them remaining to destroy equipment, you should not be allowed to do so in the first place. This is wher MW3 got it wrong. To top it off they reward you for doing so and counting it towards your pointstreak.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 10 May 2012 01:40:43 GMT

My issue with #3... Don't give a team-killing idiot Ricochet (For accidental or careless team killers it would actually not be such a bad idea, but the intentional team killer it could be a disaster). The intentional team killer is out to infuriate others and make their game miserable. If allowed to stay in the match, they can create all sorts of havok like pinning others into corners, destroying equipment, or even just giving away teammate positions through blind fire and other shenanigans. Better to kick them.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 10 May 2012 01:33:03 GMT

Going to throw my two cents in here.

I am a Hardcore only player, have been since MW2 and have gone back to COD4 and W@W to play as well, so have seen the different variations and have enjoyed reading the discussion on this Forum thus far.

The early CoD games were rough with Hardcore. They were great fun to play, until you got the TKing jerk on your team. They would run roughshod on your team and there was absolutely no recourse other than killing them yourself, earning the long respawn and the points off. There was no reporting system, I would usually do it through XBL.

Black Ops, to me, was the best so far. The Three Team Kills and kick system was the best as far as I was concerned. It kept the integrity of Hardcore, meaning that you couldn't just run around blindly shooting anyone in sight. You had to be aware of your teammates at all times, be aware of where you are shooting or tossing a 'Nade, and Communicate killstreaks such as Bombers or Napalm strikes. (Oh no! I used the "C" word). I got kicked a time or two, usually just bad luck or teammates spawning at inopportune times, but overall it wasn't a huge issue for me. The caveat of the Black Ops system was the fact that the "Host Player" could not be kicked. I played in some lobbies where the host knew this and TK'd with no repercussions. That was the biggest problem I faced in Hardcore on BlOps

MW3 was a hot mess at first. It was MW2 all over again with idiot team killers. Then... they put in Ricochet. My biggest issue with Ricochet is that I play Hardcore for the "reality" of it. I don't feel like I should be able to strafe through my teammates like in Core, its comical. I felt that the BlOps system encouraged better communication and really forced conscientious players to be aware at all times. Now, there is absolutely no regard for teammates. Players just run into firefights not caring, knowing that it will be their teammates who get killed, not them. Its made HC players as selfish as I have seen Core players be and taken away from the team aspect. For example, on Village my team spawned at the Cave. Checked my map, had all our dots at the cave or the well, and some enemy players in the village. I advised 3 times, "I am dropping my Airstrike on the village, stay away from the village for a second". I proceeded to drop it, and watched a "teammate" run into the explosions on purpose, getting me killed. Been on teams where one player tried blocking the rest of us into corners or took out our equipment, and there is no recourse. To sum up, I can't stand ricochet, it takes away from the reason I play HC to begin with. If they want to offer a HC Ricochet mode for those who want it, more power to em, or keep it on SnD, thats fine, but keep it out of HC.

My ideas for BlOps- Keep the 3 kill and kick system. I have thrown around the idea of a vote and I see too many cases where it may be abused. Honest players would use it the right way, but come on, we know this community too well. 3 kills, to me, is a fair amount. It happens to the best of players, things happen. More than that, well you just had a really bad game, were too careless, or you are a loser intentional Team Killer. I would like to see these changes to the system, however.

"Host Player" is subject to being kicked as well. If the host TKs 3 times, put us in a Host Migration and pick the next best connection, while getting rid of the offender.
Ricochet at initial spawn point for 30 seconds. This keeps someone from stabbing teammates in the back, shooting their team, firing an RPG, or other d-baggery. Allows time for the team to spread out and get away from anyone with bad intentions.
If you are in a Party when you enter the match and get kicked, you stay in the lobby as a spectator. Your team plays the rest of the match one player down unless you decide to quit and free up the slot. Its hard enough connecting with Friends, it always sucked when one got kicked and we had to back out of a lobby to pick them back up.
Add a "Team Killing" entry into the report system.
Does not count as a death for the teammate you killed, and if that teammate was on a killstreak, that streak continues. Instead, you lose points.

As for the issue of teammates blocking other teammates into corners... thats a tricky one for me. You have to keep the players solid, but because of that people exploit by blocking passages or teammates against walls or in corners. Beyond killing the offender, how do we handle that?

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 10 May 2012 01:01:24 GMT

He's just a sociopath who gets pleasure in causing others frustration. He isn't worth replying to, he actually put a post on MW3 Forums about how he loves to run in front of teammates to get them killed. Sad that anyone would enjoy that, tells you a lot about his character.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 09 May 2012 23:55:26 GMT

Ricochet is only good on paper.(Search is the only game that needs it). 3 Kill kick is better but still not good. I share the same idea of killstreaks not counting towards team kills.

Here are a few ideas.

1) If you team kill, you lose points.

2) The victim does not lose a killstreak, or count as a death on the leaderboards.

3) If you team kill 3 times in a game you get ricochet the rest of the game.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 09 May 2012 22:57:05 GMT

myevo8you wrote:

the flaw with that is that a LOT of the people that I had played with that were doing it were host and could NOT be kicked.

Solution

If host team kills they loose host immediately... There after they can be booted.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 09 May 2012 22:16:21 GMT

I probably don't play HC as much you guys probably do, but I agree with the kicking method iidarkshadowoo gave, as well with team kills with killstreaks not counting towards the process.

As for the banning cause, I say that with 3 kicks in 24 hours leads to 1 to 3 hours ban. Some might think this is as a very small punishment, but at least for the first time, it should be 1 to 3 hours.

About the voting system, it pretty much depends on the way it would work, but I don't think it will be necessary.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 09 May 2012 19:26:27 GMT

I think a little better system should be created. There were NUMEROUS times in Black Ops where if a friendly was in a certain spot or walking at a certain angle their name WAS NOT VISIBLE and it appeared to be an enemy. Also the Killstreak "accidents" were sometimes unavoidable as the napalm strike was notorious for killing people in buildings, and not being where you placed it. The B-52 was along the same lines as well. My personal opinion on the matter is I REALLY like the kicking out rule, however the flaw with that is that a LOT of the people that I had played with that were doing it were host and could NOT be kicked. These people knew they were host and would TK just for the jollies and literally went 0 kills and negative 1600 pints on HCTDM (Yes, that was 16 team kills). After I saw him do it 3 times I left, and went back in theater and watched him.

I think that there should be 2 seperate punishments for the offenders. First the host offenders. There should be a reporting option like Black Ops, but in HC modes there should be a TK report. If you get reported for TK'ing as host, your host priveledges should be not allowed.

Now for normal TK's. There should be a "voting" system. This would help when playing in a party, as somone else mentioned if a teammate gets kicked out the party always backs out to grab them. As a player that plays in a party 99% of the time, I can see a real benefit from this. Accidents happen. I know of several occasions where I have been running around a corner cooking a grenade and get shot randomly and the grenade falls and BOOM I will kill 2 teammates. Not my fault, and not intentional.

I also really liked the fact in Black Ops where tean kills didn't count as a death.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Wed, 09 May 2012 17:55:14 GMT

iidarkshadowoo wrote:

If you team kill within the first five seconds, you should get kicked.
If you team kill the same person twice, you should get kicked.
If you team kill three random team mates, you should get kicked.

I can live with that.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 07 May 2012 20:43:44 GMT

iidarkshadowoo wrote:

If you team kill within the first five seconds, you should get kicked.
If you team kill the same person twice, you should get kicked.
If you team kill three random team mates, you should get kicked.

O_o its you!

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 07 May 2012 20:42:54 GMT

If you team kill within the first five seconds, you should get kicked.

If you team kill the same person twice, you should get kicked.

If you team kill three random team mates, you should get kicked.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 07 May 2012 20:03:38 GMT

Yep. I am.

Re: Hardcore -- 3 TK kick, Ricochet... or something new?

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 07 May 2012 09:47:39 GMT

IcyRapture wrote:

It should not be a report option, if the developers were the ones who brought it into the game it's actually their fault than the people are just using it for fun. I think a temporary ban out of that game lobby would be an easier way to get rid of them, it would keep the trolls from re-joining and continuing trolling.

The developers brought it into to the game to add to the [increased] realism in hardcore.

I've said it before:

- 1 team kill =

The player killed gets a choice to forgive or put the offending player on their last chance.

- 2 team kills =

If the player is on their last chance they are kicked and banned from all multiplayer lobbies for 5 minutes.

If the player was forgiven for the 1st team kill they are now on their last chance and will be kicked and banned from all multiplayer lobbies for 5 minutes.

*Note - team kills from kill streaks SHOULD NOT COUNT towards your team kill tally.