Community: Message List - Shotgun balance thread

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 18:21:25 GMT

Locking due to repeated infractions by the OP.

Edit: A secondary discussion may be created if wished by the participants of the thread.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:48:50 GMT

My point is that even if 1000 people think it would be fair that does not mean it would be fair. Just because a group comes together and thinks a change in a game is fair or ok and should be done does not always mean that is the case. Some the the changes that were made in past games were not always for the best of everyone. And it is everyone that the company must look too and not just splinter groups that what certain things to be how they think it should be.

Need I remind you of Flags and Bombs in BO?. And how the group that helped it happen found out later that no, most of the players did not like it want it in the game. And it was removed because it caused more issues than it solved.

Message was edited by: trialstardragon

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:47:15 GMT

Like I said just because in past games the guns had that does not mean that all games will have to have that regardless if any players think it should. And regardless if it was that way in teh begining of this game because of a glitch does not mean they have to return it back to that way after they fixed the glitch. The game developer has the right to adjust the performance of the guns in any way they see fit. Even if means upsetting some of the players, and they do not have to set it back just because the players try to request it or make 1000's of posts saying its not fair. Ultimately the developers decide what is fair and not the players All the players do is express their personal view, which does not count toward what everyone else wants. No one person or group can ever claim to speak for any niche or group of the community that plays the game.

In the end all the players can do is either adapt, continue to complain(which may lead to nothing) or find a new game and not buy from them again. Because really when push comes to shove as long as the game continues to make record breaking sales each year it comes out they do not have to care if they upset any group of players that much in how they changed the guns.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:07:01 GMT

Got damage on the 1887 just today. It's so wierd, I'll get a longshot from 2 miles and then I'll take 3 shots to kill 1 guy. I tried it in Hardcore, but the automatics kill me before I kill them just as easily. It was hard ranking it up, but I kept playing aggressive and I made my goal. Now to get it gold... Do I get a medal for getting the 1887 as my first gold gun?

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:09:51 GMT

When does the buff come for the M16,PM-9, MP5 and the Model 1887? They had announced it!

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 02:29:19 GMT

I'm with you Brick. In my experience in MW3 shotguns are poo. When you are at such a range disadvantage, IMO if you manage to hit someone, they should die, full stop. Getting hitmarkers with the model at 5m is a cruel joke. Pretty much why I stopped using shotguns, unless I am bored silly.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 01:55:43 GMT

We had the exact damage we are asking for for 3 months. A massive majority of the forums felt that it was a fair ammount of damage to put out in cqc. Not to mension the past 7 years of experience with 2 pellet kill shotguns sice cod 2.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:26:14 GMT

As toward your question about the Dragunov and RSASS that is because they are meant to be hgh skill head shot weapons for one shot kill. If they could get one shot kills to the chest just as easy as some of ther snipers with their lower recoil and faster firing rate they would dominate over all other snipers. Somoene with a fast enough trigger finger could even easily out shoot most other guns in the game as well.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:04:06 GMT

We have had singular useless guns before though, and that is ok, you need a few off pace weapons actually to give people something to have to grit their teeth to use.

An almost entirely useless class though?

You're unarmed for a vast majority of the map, even in close quarters.

Most people have a warped sense of fair anyway, refusing to use anything other than a MP7/ACR.

I bet if people were forced to use different guns (maybe locking guns out once they get 3 hours use for 2 hours) and used a shotty you would see infinity ward patching the guns, but as they are they are pretty much dead content with only the foolhardy and masochistic using them.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:45:07 GMT

Mine does not record private matchs even when theater is turned on. I checked in theater after turning it on to see if it would.

I am a founder of Elite so yes I have the longer time allowed to post video's had I wanted to use that feature. Which I never had a reason to do so; because I do not have many reasons to ever do mp game play of games.

I mainly watch the sp game play to see where I missed things in missions, or about what choices affected the outcome in other ways.

In general I find mp game play boring and useless. So never had a reason to ever want to record or upload any. I do not use or need a game to brag about how I play or to show off skillz about how I play a game. For it is just a game to me in the end. Just a means of entertainment.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:22:14 GMT

Thats a little more like it. At least we are getting somewhere.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:42:11 GMT

Shotties overall are better than in blops though.

Striker and usas-12 are very usable and good guns overall. The usas-12 lacks a bit of damage on range outside its max damage range.

The spas, ksg and model are decent with damage, lacking constancy in their zone overall for their slow fire rates.

The aa-12 is ok with damage, scavenger and the range bonus I guess. That thing needs too much going for it thus a significant buff is needed. I don't use it so no idea what it really needs.

So yeah, they need to buff the other 4 for more constancy cqb only, as their ranges are fine (bar for the aa-12). A buff for the first 300 units or so is needed. As long as they don't give them 2 pellet kill range up to 10-13 meters and so on, they should be fine.

I actually have a higher model k/d than acr, mp7 or PP90 atm. Like said I mainly used the thing in relatively local lobbies with a good host. This is how connection based this game is. Anyone dying lag comps impact on the game is living in a fantasy world.

I still feel it’s one of the worst guns in the game or at least hardest to use. It’s decent in local lobbies do to it’s good ohk ability on range, if you have great fast & accurate hip fire aim.

This game is very connection based though. They can all perform at least ok in good lobbies, though they should clearly be more constant in their cqb zone.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1896/18159718.png

I still think it’s up there with the worst guns of the game, do to its lack of true constancy cqb and average spread with Steady aim making every shot a bit of a gamble regardless of good aim.

I feel the 2 pellet kill range should be 300 units or so. Above that the 3 pellet kill with damage should be about luck (the spread) and excellent aim (like it's now).

So yeah, give the pumps and model 3 ranges. Cqb (300 units) and then their current ranges and drops. The standard damage should only give a 3-pellet kill up to that cqb zone as well & range would only add 100 units to that, making damage with 25 % less overall range the more constant pick. Range would be better than it's now, but not a lot.

Also give them all the ads accuracy increase (give them all their steady aim spread adsed with steady aim at least), ads movement speed increase (like smgs) & usas-12 sprint time.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:24:07 GMT

The pumpguns are my worst performing weapons (k/d ~1.80, my k/d is 2.64). I would like to have an explanation from the devs why they nerf the other shotguns but dont nerf the striker. For me the Striker was balanced compare to other shotguns in mw2. The Striker is also a well balanced weapon in mw3. Infinity ward shame on you, what have you done with the shotguns. I hope they will buff them. I also dont understand why the Dragunov and RSASS dont get a OSK to the chest, all other sniper get stopping power for free. That makes no sense at all.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 15:24:32 GMT

These people won´t admit that they screwed up big time with the shotguns in this game and so therefore will not change them. You´d be better off playing a different game until Black Ops 2 comes out. Don´t waste your time with the morons known as Sledgehammer and Infinity Ward.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 15:01:58 GMT

If you have elite (free) you can upload 30 second video clips to youtube. If you have premium its one minute. If you turn on theater mode it will record private matches. Thats how I got that aa12 vs pp90 footage.

I know there are two sides to an argument and it is very unlikely that one side is 100% correct but look at this thread. There are hundreds of people that think what we are suggesting is perfect. The things we are suggesting are not a new crazy direction for call of duty. This is all stuff that has been proven to be acceptable.

This is just maddeningly frustrating. I get one to two of these a game even in lobbies comprised of all 4 bar players. There is just no way that they can improve connections enough to prevent this stuff from happening.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:27:46 GMT

trialstardragon wrote:

And your view on how akimbos should work based on past games does not mean that is how it should work in this game. IW has every right to change how any weapon works or performs against any other weapon from game to game regardless if you or anyone else likes it or not. It is their game, they make the choices about how it should work. Ultimately it is their choice and not yours or mine or anyone elses ever.

It is also our decision if we want to buy the game or not.

Use some common sense in your post. If IW decided, "Hey, lets give the FMG9 akimbo 2 degree spread, 50-40 damage,4000 RPM, 100 round mags and no recoil" do you think there would be many people playing/buying the game? NO. So unless they want no money from activision they just can't go around go around making the game whatever they feel like making it. Give me a sensable reason why a secondary akimbo MP should outclass a primary weapon. Whats that you say? Secondaries don't have to be worse then primaries? Hmmmm. If they handguns the primary slot do you think anyone would use them? If put the smaw in as a primary weapon with its one rocket do you think anyone would use it? What if they put the MP7 in the machine pistol catergory, or the G18 in the SMG catergory? They are called secondaries for a reason. What use would overkill be if it gave you access to weapons that are not any better then what you currently have?

The lack of common sense in your post is why I'm convienced your trolling. And I see you do it on almost all the threads I see you on, not just this one.

Oh and fox, wouldn't lack of common sense in your comments in post be a violation of #2. of the forum code of conduct which is spamming?

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:51:57 GMT

And your view on how akimbos should work based on past games does not mean that is how it should work in this game. IW has every right to change how any weapon works or performs against any other weapon from game to game regardless if you or anyone else likes it or not. It is their game, they make the choices about how it should work. Ultimately it is their choice and not yours or mine or anyone elses ever.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:48:45 GMT

I added that so people would understand calling me a Troll is not an insult to me and never was nor ever will be. Using that term to try to insult people just because you do not like how they respond on a forum is childish at best, foolish or down right stupid at its worst. And actually makes the person using that word as an insult look worse than the person they tried to insult.

So no it is not just non-sense. My update is to let everyone know that if they try to insult me it will fall on deaf ears and have no affect about how I respond. That the childish term created by users who can not get over how a person chooses to respon other then acting like a child and calling them a ridiculous name contrived to be used an an insult is just foolish.

That individuals like myself that are old enough to understand the true power and meaning of words do not let such things affect us as how people that try to use that word may want them too.

People need to grow up and stop acting like this is some popularity contest and using old school marm insults to attack anyone they do not agree with or like. For really all that does i make them look worse for doing so.

So yeah if you take insult that the word Troll is not an insult to me than it proves you are not as grown up or as mature as you may try to think you are. That you still need to be able to use spiteful words to attack someone to try and make them leave. Which is childish and ranks of highschool antics where kids thought they were cool by trying to make others look bad by using words..

It is ludicrous that anyone here even ever would think that word has a bad connotation to it for those it is used against.

Trying to apply that label to someone will only make them act that way even more out of spite becasue they know it will bother you.

Just as when I call people fools here or immature or childish they act like that even more to try and prove that they are not. But by responding or acting out they are infact becoming the lable that I applied to them.

It is simple pyschology if you understand it.

Call a person an arsehole they will become one even more because they have no reason not too, since you have allready labled them as so. Not everyone tries to prove the label wrong. Many will accept the label and act upon it because they know it will irritate the person that used the label that much more; because they have no other reason to act any differently. Simple fact of life.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:03:24 GMT

Yeah I'm going to start ignoring you as well. It was fine to discuss with you until I saw this:

"TRIALSTARDRAGON

I am not a troll I am a DragonTroll, "

So yeah it's just non-sense

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:49:58 GMT

I think that may be the best course of action Foxy. For neither side is really willing to see or understand each other beyond what they want to be understood. So agreeing to disagree on the issue over how the shotguns work may need to be what is done.

Though I may provide valid points that can not be agreed too because they are counter to what the poster was looking for. I do at times do them in a more argumentative manner which can be hard for some tolerate because they are not used to doing so. Though I grew up around such things so it makes it easier for me to do with out ever really noticing I am doing it. My inbuilt arsehole meter nolonger works correctly at times when replying if not enough time is given to recalibrate when needed.

You know how I just hate to see a post go where everyone just accepts what ever is given as fact and assumes it to be 100% accurate when really that hardly if ever happens. My own personal issue to deal with. I just drives me a bit up the wall when I see those beause there is always another side to the story being supplied and often it is not told because those telling their side do not want it told out of fear that somoene may agree with what was said counter to what they said.

I accept you comment about posting style and apologize for my errant behavior once more. Perhaps a vacation from the forums is needed once more. Time away so I can desensitize to the comments of others and not take it nearly as personal as I may have been doing once more.