Community: Message List

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 03:12:17 GMT

Mark rubin keeps saying its just a rumor.

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:51:43 GMT

The ksg would be the different pump shotgun. The spas and 1887 would be long range shotguns but the ksg doing a 2/9 pellet kill would be a very relaible one shot kill. Maps like seatown and mission would be perfect for the ksg and its good cqc power because since targets are easier to get into the ksg's higher damage range so the spas and 1887 would be less usefull.

I doubt with the rebalance that is coming that the really bad weapons (m16, mp5,pm9.ect...) will remain as bad as they are and will be more competitive with eachother. With that in mind I don't want to purposefully design an inferior weapon.

The ways that I would differentiate the shotguns if they would just let me go nuts on them would be a little strange and hard to do at this point in the game's life. The buffs I propose are the most realistic and usefull that I can think of.

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:56:48 GMT

You don't understand. With the ksg at 35 stock damage the spas and 1887 would almost entirely outclass it. They would have a very similar reliable one shot range but the spas and 1887 would have a 2 pellet kill to boot which makes the ksg's 1 extra pellet meaning less. 35 stock on the ksg will make it useless by comparsion to the others.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:56:43 GMT

They were not lying. The striker in jugg vs stiker can lead to some tiny insignificant framerate issues. but that is with litterally 12+ people constantly shooting the striker.

Even when the aa12 shot 12 pellets it was the rarest shotgun because its limmited range, low ammo, and low damage at range kept it from being usefull. Not many people are willing to use something so limited. So not buffing a terribly under powered weapon in the off chance that 8+ people in a single lobby would use it is ludacris.

The pump shotguns do not lead to any frame rate issues. And it is clear that they need some close range reliability. We are working with mark rubin right now to get this addressed. If you have not already send him messages on twitter. I am on his xbox friends list and I will talk to him the next time he is online with me. He seems more reasonable and I feel we have a good shot at a buff with the large scale rebalance comming up.

Re: aa12 : underpowered?

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:40:44 GMT

I already get 1-2 messages a day complaining about me using a shotgun. People complain about anything regardless of how effective it is.

They would only have "damage" strength shots for less than 400 inches on the pumps with our buffs. And if the pumps currently take skill to use with damage why wouldn't a pump shotgun that only has "damage" for 400 inches take any less skill. It wouldn't, it would take more.

Shotguns right now do not work properly. They must be changed. Making a base pump shotgun take 4/8 is rediculous. That is not a reliable cqc tool. Remeber the damage on the base versions of these pumps drops very low at range. The only range where base shotguns with my buffs would be effective weapons would be before the damage drop. Essentially giving all the pumps the range of the aa12 because one shot kills from further than that is unlikely. And I still get bs deaths with damage. Until damage is unlocked these new shotgunners will still get hitmarkers. 3/8 is not reliable enough, that is the whole point.

I don't care if people think they are too strong. They always have and always will until they use them for themselves. I don't care if the devs say the shotguns take skill either. No one plays this game to please the developers.

Shotguns have been a 2 pellet kill since cod 2. And even in mw3 we had the spas with emags and damage no one complains about the 2 pellet kill...ever. No I'm serious. Never has the 2 pellet kill on shotguns been a feature that has been complained about in cod. Its always been high damage at range (mw2 1887's) and spamability (mw2 aa12 and mw3 striker) that the community complains about. We have come up with numbers that give us the 2 pellet kill with damage but do not extend the one shot kill range on either the spas or 1887. Only the ksg will see any increase in one shot kill range. And that increase will only be .65 meters and that will be with the range proficiency so you won't get the 2 pellet kill and that increase at the same time.

We have really though this through. We know what we are asking for is fair and will be accepted by the community. This is unacceptable.

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:09:10 GMT

No tightening the spread may actually exacerbate the problem. With a tighter spread if the character is not really where he is shown on screen due to sync issues then even being slightly off with a tight spread may mean that you miss entirely. This is very easy to prove. Take a spas with damage and not steady aim and play, then take a spas with steady aim and without damage and play. The steady aim no damage spas will get more hitmarkers because of the lower margin of error that the gun has compared to the less accurate more damaging spas.

Even with a specialist bonus (damage+range) ksg I got hitmarkers while hipfiring dead center into the guy. Guess how many pellets worth of damage the killcam showed hit him. 2 pellets. That is the case in almost 90% of the hitmarker vids that include a killcam.

The damage we are proposing is not "willy nilly" it is the same damage level that shotguns have had since cod 2. Its not like a 2 pellet kill has not been done before on cod shotguns, in fact it is a staple feature of them. Even in mw3 we had the pre patch spas with emags and damage that did a 3/12 pellet kill. 3/12=2/8. We have had the exact damage we are asking for before in mw3 already. There was not one thread created nor a single post I could find on this forum that complained about the spas with emags. With our experience from cod 2-mw3 telling us that a 2 pellet kill is just fine before the damage drop its not possible to say that it is not fair when in every iteration of cod where we have had it (including this one) it was seen as fair by the community.

We have come up with numbers that give us that 2 pellet kill with the damage proficiency but do not extend the reliable one shot kill by any distance on the spas and 1887. Only the ksg will see an increase in reliable one shot kill range and the ksg's will only be extended by .65 meters. Considering it can only one shot kill now out to 15 meters while the spas and 1887 can out to 16.5 meters adding .65 meters to the ksg only goes to balance them more.

I have my doubts about your experience with shotguns. I sent you a pm.

Re: stalker vs steady aim for shotguns

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 05:09:43 GMT

Steady aim combines 2 far more usefull abilities than stalker provides. 1. The obvious effective range increase that a tighter spread can give. 2. The faster aim out of sprinting negates the need for quick draw or stalker becase you can fire out of sprinting remarkably fast.

The primay effect of stalker is only somewhat usefull because you can learn to use a shotgun's hipfire to a better effect than ads. And its secondary effect of delaying motion trigger explosives does not supplant steady aim's abilities. This is especially true when there is sitrep which makes eplosive traps of all kinds a non issue and provides the added benefit of the ability to sound whore any one at any time.

In the face of the raw effectiveness boost that steady aim gives and the data gathering ability that sitrep provides, stalker may as well not exist.

Hard to argue with the long range performance that a steady aim enhanced hipfire can grant.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:44:43 GMT

I don't think any of the devs actually read the threads on this forum. Its absolutely clear what the community wanted from the shotguns in this game if they would just look at the first 30 or so pages of the title update thread. It was clear that the striker needed a nerf from its emags glory (this was done satisfactorilly) and that the spas needed a significat long range buff without losing its close range damage. The 1887 needed to become more consistent at close range. That ksg needed emags made standard and a close range damage buff above that. And the aa12 needed needed its emags made standard.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:39:21 GMT

At least one bad hitmarker every game. At least this game gave me some fun to make up for it.

Re: aa12 : underpowered?

donotreply@activision.com — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:37:42 GMT

I don't know if that is a glitch or if the removal of gun kick is a function of the thermal scope to help improve automatic fire. Either way it doen't matter. If you read the title update thread people were asking for a pump shotgun buff above what emags gave them. The only shotgun that was ever complained about in the TU thread was the striker.

This community complains about long range performance (mw2 1887's brokimbo'd) and spamability (mw2 aa12, mw3 stiker) we can avoid both of these and still get a usefull buff to pump shotguns.

We have come up with numbers for the pumps that give them back the 2 pellet kill they need for reliability but does not increase the reliable one shot kill range on the 1887 and spas at all. Only the ksg will see any increase in effective one shot kill range and that will only be .65 meters. Considering the ksg can only one shot kill 1.5 meters shorter than the spas and 1887 this goes to balance the pumps even more.

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:26:52 GMT

The thing is pump shotguns need to be designed to one shot kill. Unless you buff the fire rate to the 120's it won't matter because every weapon in the game can still easily kill you inbetween those shots. The semi auto's and auto shotguns are designed for multiple shot gun fights but the pumps need to be designed for one shot kills or they will just be useless compared to semi autos which have larger mags and fire rates.

Adding 2 pellets might help the reliability some. Although the one extra pellet on the ksg only marginally improves its point blank reliability so I am not sure what 2 would do. I can tell you from lots of testing and research that 80-90% of those bad hitmarkers seem to land 2 pellets worth of damage. That is one of the reasons we have been asking for a 2 pellet kill. I have a 41-0 spas moab where the connections were flawless (everyone was 4 barring) and I still got a terrible hitmarker from 15 ft. with specialist bonus. Even if the connections significantly improve we will still get these hitmarkers.

The thing about adding pellets is that you can't just add pellets to the 1887 and keep it balanced at range. With 2 more pellets the 1887 might become too strong at range. That is why we are suggesting just a close range damage increase. It cures the reliability problem for the most part and I can prove that buffing the 1887 to 40-20 damage stock does not increase its reliable one shot kill range at all. We get our reliability and no one gets killed from any further than they currently do.

Movement speed is fine on shotguns. With 100% mobility and excon you have a significant mobility advantage over the competition in most cases. I would have liked infinite sprint in mw3 but whatever. The maps are small enough to where you can get most places with a good mp9+excon sprint anyway.

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:00:07 GMT

They haven't done anything for the 1887 since launch. Still 6 degree standard spread, 5 ads, 3 pellet kill with damage, 4 without, 40% ads movement, and hitmarkers everywhere. This was checked about a week ago so unless they did something to it in the 6/21 patch and didn't tell us I have no idea. I will do the tests later today to check.

Re: aa12 : underpowered?

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:26:49 GMT

LOL true. I guess anyway the devs want to say it happened its clear that the intent was to weaken the shotgun class.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:00:45 GMT

Just started leveling the m60 yesterday. 400 kills in and I have it at a 4.35 k/d. Its confirmed now shotguns are the least useful class in mw3.

Re: aa12 : underpowered?

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:57:55 GMT

That is a good point about emags glitch in beta testing. Although I find it hard to believe that they could have missed 50% extra pellets per shot. It was discovered by the community 2-3 days after launch which is about the same ammount of time it takes to level a shotgun to emags.

Re: aa12 : underpowered?

donotreply@activision.com — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:18:56 GMT

With the recent buff to the dragunov the aa12 is now officially the worst weapon in mw3. And is in fact a contender for worst weapon in cod history. Even when the gun fired 12 pellets it still was not a frequently seen weapon because its range/damage at range was so infinitely bad. Even with the 12 pellets no one used it.

What I find magical is that all of the shotguns were incredibly weak at launch. 25-5 spas, 6 pellet ksg, 15-5 aa12, and the 6 pellet usas. Only the 1887 and striker were even useful without emags "glitch" at launch.

The devs want us to believe that they balanced mw3 weapons to be actually balanced. But instead lets look at what weapons were complained about in mw2. Shotguns, the ump, and noob tubes. Mw3 shotguns are terrible at launch (besides striker). The ump is a 6 bullet kill at range in mw3 even though it is the slowest firing smg. And noobtubes are almost useless.

They balanced mw3 to get rid of the things that were complained about in mw2. I can't stand the blatant lies they try to feed us regarding weapon balance.

Re: Modern Warfare 3 Title Update and Hot Fix Notes

donotreply@activision.com — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:05:32 GMT

Ghandi I died from falling again when I had dead silence pro on. I don't really care if you look into it because they happen so infrequently but its still something you should know.

And also if you hit the ground right after firing when falling from a good height you will pump your shotgun almost twice as fast once in a while.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:18:09 GMT

Well with a 2 pellet kill ksg you would probably never get a BS hitmarker again. If they were to be asking for suggestionf for realistic buffs in this game I would say 2 pellet kill would be the most reasonable. But in the next title I would like unique attachment effects. For the ksg it would be like a lossless silencer like the black ops spas, or a tiny ads spread with a red dot or something. Special stuff like that would be a neat way to balance the guns in the next game. But for now we realisticly have to ask for what we know works. They gave us 3 pump action shotguns with relatively similar performances. So for now we just need to work with what we got and expand into what we want in the next cod.

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:10:09 GMT

Our posts sound awefully similar don't they?

Re: Shotgun balance thread

donotreply@activision.com — Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:52:32 GMT

They did just nerf dead mans hand. I haven't played in about a few days so Ill see what its like now. I might remove that from the list if it not as much of a problem anymore. Final stand is still a problem. I will probably change the non stat parts of the proposals later today.